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Please help and suppotrt us?
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hillmanseeker



Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:56 am    Post subject: Please help and suppotrt us? Reply with quote

Hi Everyone,

Our poor little Car is having a hard time at the moment re her registration!!!
Our lovely 1954 Hillman Minx MK 7 Californian (Now a rare car in the UK) needs to keep her original Reg!!!!
We don't have an original log book, in fact we don't have anything to show the reg and chassis number together.
IT WOULD BE VERY SAD for "LOTTIE" (That's what we call her) to lose her original registration!!!
Well, after saving her from the scrap yard, recently discovering what interest there is for her as a car, WE SHALL ATTEMPT TO TAKE A STAND AGAINST THE BLOODY NON UNDERSTANDING PEOPLE AT DVLA, who obviously don't have a heart! I thought the DVLA was a Public service?
Its not the cars fault there aren't any documents, nor is it ours!!! It's not our fault the records kept years ago are missing. She still has a number plate on the car, the car exists. There is a chassis number, there is proof of where she was made etc. Ok they will offer her an age related plate (Crazy!!!) Why offer that when she already had and has an age related plate. It's not like the reg is on another car somewhere!! They have no records of "Lottie" But they refuse to give back her original reg!!
WELL IT'S BLOOY NONSENCE!!!
It's time this was sorted for everyone with this problem!!!
We had sent the right forms, photographs a cert from the Hillman owners club all stamped, signed, with the club happy that this was the original car and reg.
Can anyone help with ideas?
Would like to start up a petition, in support of this, anyone interested in backing us?
Dave Miles.
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20183
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave,

Have a look at the Kithead Trust website. They have some old registration records, and details of others that still survive in various county council archives. Sometimes a search down that route can be beneficial when it comes to proving a vehicle's right to be (re)allocated an original number.

What is the reg? or at least the letters part of it, if you don't wish to divulge it here.

RJ
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Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1033
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you can write to the editor of the magazine The Automobile. He frequently mentions the fact that he is able to help dealing with the DVLA for keeping original car registrations.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3369
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This should be quite straight forward; the DVLA has a published list of club officials who they recognise as expert in individual Marques and take their guidance in situations such as this .

Have you used the correct marque official? , if yes and the official is happy that the car and reg are genuine there should be no argument ?

One does have to conciser the position of the DVLA; I could pick a nice plate , and imply it was the vehicles original reg, if it got issued whilst it would not be transferable, it may just be a nice reg to have Smile ....without evidence how do they differentiate between you and someone trying to pull the wool over their eyes ?

Dave
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traction39



Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 389
Location: South Wales

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would definitely check the county records. I found my original reg number related to the engine number and chassis in their archive. Unfortunately, the reg number is adorning another car Sad The records office gave me a "certified" copy of the record which I then declared to DVLA (local office days). But unable to have the original number
My Riley 9 already had an age related plate assigned to it. The car came with the original 1932 plates (missed computer registration) but I was able to relate chassis and original plate to the log book. With the help of an inspection and a certain member of the Automobile mag the original 1932 plate was re-assigned. Laughing
Unfortunately the local Glamorgan records office had lost the 1930 to 1935 records...
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hillmanseeker



Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Help and Support Reply with quote

Hi,
Thanks for the info (REPLIES), re our fight to save "Lotties" original reg!
We are on the case!!!!
Dave Wink
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Rick
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Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukdave2002 wrote:
This should be quite straight forward; the DVLA has a published list of club officials who they recognise as expert in individual Marques and take their guidance in situations such as this .

Have you used the correct marque official? , if yes and the official is happy that the car and reg are genuine there should be no argument ?

One does have to conciser the position of the DVLA; I could pick a nice plate , and imply it was the vehicles original reg, if it got issued whilst it would not be transferable, it may just be a nice reg to have Smile ....without evidence how do they differentiate between you and someone trying to pull the wool over their eyes ?

Dave


Yep if you can prove that the reg. belongs to that car's chassis number, then there's no problem. But without that, sadly, there's no chance - for the reasons ukdave gives.

An old-style change of ownership record from a council archive, that doesn't actually mention the chassis number but that does include the reg. no. and the make of car, can help in addition to whatever supporting docs you can find.

RJ
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Rick
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your car was originally registered in East Lothian.

Unfortunately the Kithead Trust only have card indexes for that area running to 1947, according to this page:

http://www.kitheadtrust.org.uk/scotland_10.html

Card index records often don't contain the full set of info you'd need anyway, but they can help.

RJ
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Riley Blue



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 1700
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You say you sent documents from the Hillman Owners Club confirming the car and registration number went together. What evidence did the club provide to back this up?
You say 'she still has a number plate on the car'. Is it because an age related number has already been issued and is present that the DVLA is refusing to re-issue the original registration?
If we knew the reason for refusal, perhaps we could give better advice on how to deal with it.
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Rick
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

riley541 wrote:
...
You say 'she still has a number plate on the car'. Is it because an age related number has already been issued and is present that the DVLA is refusing to re-issue the original registration?
...


I interpreted the OP as meaning that it's physical numberplate(s) is/are still bolted to the car, rather than it having a current (perhaps age-related) reg. logged with DVLA for the car. Could have read it wrong though!

RJ
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Riley Blue



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 1700
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick wrote:
riley541 wrote:
...
You say 'she still has a number plate on the car'. Is it because an age related number has already been issued and is present that the DVLA is refusing to re-issue the original registration?
...


I interpreted the OP as meaning that it's physical numberplate(s) is/are still bolted to the car, rather than it having a current (perhaps age-related) reg. logged with DVLA for the car. Could have read it wrong though!

RJ


In which case I'm doubly baffled at the DVLA's refusal.
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1963 Riley 1.5
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hillmanseeker



Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:29 pm    Post subject: Please support Reply with quote

Yes, the one number plate we do have is still with the car! DVLA have had images showing the car side on, Dash Speedo/Mileage, Rear with plate and Description badge (all car details- chassis number etc. Also Body Number. A Cert from The Hillman Owners Club with details of Car. All images and cert signed and stamped by the club. All correct forms sent, signed by Club as being the correct car and reg after inspection and recommended DVLA accept this is the correct car and reg!!!
All forms, cert, images etc returned with letter from DVLA saying NO! They will not accept this with out more proof, (orig log book or signed stamped copy of, predated tax disc pre dated insurance documentation or anything connecting chassis number with reg!

Sadly we don't have any of this, NOT OUR or THE CARS FAULT!!!!
We surely must come under special consideration!!! ?
The car is still here physically, has an original old number plate.
I can obtain a Heritage Cert, that will show when the car was made, where made, Registered, Colour etc.

Just what more can I do !!!!!? Anyone have a real Tardis!!!!

Dave.
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peterwpg



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2223
Location: New Brunswick. Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will start with saying that I don't have any knowledge of the current UK licence system that apply to this or any other vehicle.

Having said that and having no emotional connection with the car may I be allowed to make this comment.

It would appear that the DVLC regulations are black and white. The black and white may be stupid, ridiculous and all the other things that apply to regulations that have no emotional tolerance.

The vehicle in question seems to have "grey" provenance. Not suggesting that anything is not a true record, but grey is not black and not white.

Perhaps the regulations need to be re-written in which case a united effort would be required, the "red flag" view to motoring lives on.
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Rick
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Please support Reply with quote

hillmanseeker wrote:
...
I can obtain a Heritage Cert, that will show when the car was made, where made, Registered, Colour etc.
....


If a Heritage Cert is available, containing chassis and registration information taken from recognised factory or licencing records, then that'll do the job. But if it only shows that a car, of unknown chassis number, was built matching yours in specification and with the same numberplate as fitted to yours, it won't be enough sadly.

RJ
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Riley Blue



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The FBHVC should be advised of the details of this case, they may be able to exert some pressure on the DVLA. In any case, other clubs' members should be made aware of the problem.
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David

1963 Riley 1.5
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