Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Rich5ltr]

I asked this question on Pistonheads but thought I'd ask here too as I am interested in all opinions.

I muscling up to a bare metal repaint for the Aston (1958 burgundy red, not metallic) and I want to know what people think of using 2K on older cars. I understand the lacquer is more like glass but I've also read that you can add a slight flatting agent to the it to get the same look as cellulose.

What are your thoughts and experiences from those who've done either?

p.s. I will be using a specialist body shop to do the work, not doing it myself...

[ukdave2002]

Hi

I have used both, but only use 2k these days, if you look at the thread on my MGA Restoration the entire car is painted in 2k.

Parking the safety stuff for a moment, 2k has a number of advantages, for me the 3 important one's are:

1) Coverage; needs less coats than celly, and in the home workshop this means less chance of paint contamination.

2) Runs and orange peel (the 2 most common faults) can normally be rectified without adding more paint.

3) it does a better job of covering very minor defects than celly.

Most painters apply a base coat followed by a clear coat, this is what can give the plasticly look, I get the paint made up as a solid colour (ie the gloss is in the paint) because on a older car it better resembles celly, and I don't have to paint 2 coats (increased contamination in the home workshop) A matting agent can be added to reduce the gloss right down to a matt finish if required (paint supplier will advise how much to use for desired effect, or will mix it in the paint for you) I have only used it for chassis and suspension components where I wanted a "factory" black satin look.

One disadvantages of 2k is the overspray / mist that seems to cover everything, investment in polythene sheets to cover everything in the workshop is a must.

Safety wise, 2k can kill... it contains arsenic ...there are "28 day" disposable masks, but frankly you only get one pair of lungs and the £250 investment in an air fed mask and proper filters is IMHO a small price to pay even if its just one respray

Cheers

Dave

[Rich5ltr]

That's really interesting Dave, I hadn't realised you could mix the colour "solid2 so to speak and not use lacquer.

[peppiB]

2k hardener contains poisonous isocyanate, and can be deadly. Nowadays however you can get 1k converter which turns the paint from chemically cured to air dried and eliminates the risk of cyanide poisoning. It dries glossy and does not need a lacquer coat.
I have no connection with the firm, but Jawell paints in the midlands mix my 2k paint

[Old Wrench]

[ajlelectronics]

Lots of misinformation about 2K. Firstly, it doesn't contain Cyanide. Isocyanates are not Cyanide. First time I have heard the Arsenic idea too, but will need to double check. However, I don't think it does.

It is true that Isocyanates can be dangerous, apparently even in small quantities. The danger is in the hardener, not the paint or the thinners. When sprayed, the isocyanates become airborne and that is when you are likely to be at risk.

Safe working is with an air fed mask and coverall. There are some non air fed masks that claim to be for 2K, but you will never know the truth of that unless you take the risk. As far as I know, no UK mask or filter manufacturer in this country will recommend a non air fed mask for 2K exposure. One of the reasons is that with air fed, you always have positive pressure. With a conventional mask, the fit can be imperfect and you will be breathing in the mist.
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[Old Wrench]

[Rich5ltr]

My car is a 1958 DB 2/4 MkIII, handbuilt in aluminium by craftsmen wearing brown workshop coats in Feltham. It was re-sprayed back in 1972 and that paint is now blistering additionally in places there is some corrosion that needs fixing. It is not suitable for painting over hence wanting a bare metal repaint. Incidentally perhaps some people have got the wring end of the stick. I am not proposing to do this myself but will have a specialist body shop do the work. I am just interested in people's thoughts of the virtues of different paint systems. One possibility is Mitchell Motors and Andy Mitchell is a fan of 2K paint. An alternative is Spellbound in Farnham while a third option is Fiennes Restoration, a Rolls Royce specialist who's work I have been impressed with.

[Old Wrench]

If it were mine, Rich, then I would seek quotations from such as R J Williams.

http://www.rswilliams.co.uk/contact-us/

http://www.djsmail.co.uk/contact-us/

http://www.amoc.org/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,160/Itemid,4/

That car is a priceless piece of wonderful engineering heritage and demands and deserves all respect.

Which, sadly, does not come cheap.........
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Well, apart from that, did you enjoy the play, Mrs Lincoln?

[Rich5ltr]

Thanks, yes I know RS Williams and Desie Smail. They tend to specialise in the DB4/5/6 cars rather than the earlier Felthams. That said their bodywork is good. Mitchell Motors are also very well known in Aston (and Bristol) circles and have the benefit of working closely with Davron who do the mechanical work on my car. I certainly won't let any old back street paint shop loose on it but on the other hand I'm not about to give Aston Martin Works a cheque for £330,000 to rip it apart and replace everything with new metal!

As an aside there is a tendency for specialists to increase their costs in direct relation to the value of the cars, something I can't fathom. It takes the same number of hours now as it did 5 years ago and back then Works Service quoted me £25k for a full body job.

[Rich5ltr]

[RotaryBri]

I know that photographs can make a car look better but your paintwork looks superb. Does it really need a bare metal paint job?
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Keep Torqueing,

RotaryBri

1976 NSU Ro80

[ukdave2002]

If you are getting done professionally, for a car like this I'd have it done in cellulose to maintain originality.

If you choose celly make sure you pick a firm who are used to painting with cellulose as it hasn't been used in volume by the refurbushing trade for more than 25 years mainstream body shops stopped using 2k about 15 years ago water based paints are the current flavour using clear over base.

Cheers

Dave

[colwyn500]

[petermeachem]

Should be cellulose I think. It's the same with chrome, old chrome has a deep sheen, modern chrome is too sparkly.