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Can you identify this van body please?
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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2680
Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are those vents along the top edges ?

If it is galvanised or dipped zinc plated steel lining, could it have been a livestock carrier ? The front compartment with exterior door to store supplies, tools etc.

Any evidence of fixtures for tethering/support ?

What is the outer skin material under the paint ?

If the interior was intended to be hosed out, then the folding and seams would be in arranged to ensure drainage and not seepage.
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1733
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterwpg wrote:

If it is galvanised or dipped zinc plated steel lining, could it have been a livestock carrier ? The front compartment with exterior door to store supplies, tools etc.


Going on the quoted size I doubt it was used for livestock - it's a bit small for horses or cattle, you wouldn't even get many sheep inside and in any case sheep were more usually herded along the road at the time this vehicle would have been current.

The front compartment puzzles me as well, but it could have been for storing protective clothing used by the men carting stuff off to be fumigated. Nothing like the disposable "onesies" of today of course, but certainly gloves, wellies and long oilskins or similar, stuff that you wouldn't want to drive in or risk bugs in the cab.

peterwpg wrote:

If the interior was intended to be hosed out, then the folding and seams would be in arranged to ensure drainage and not seepage.


Presumably so, or it wouldn't have lasted this long. I wonder if the seams are soldered? Zinc isn't the easiest material to solder but it's quite doable, and of course skilled men to do so would have been easier to find back then, especially in a big city like London.
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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2680
Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I know of the furniture moving business, even in the 1960's and into the 70's there was little importance placed on fumigating furniture to prevent the transference of bugs.

The lining of this van body would be zinc coated steel, whether dipped or electroplated. A close inspection should reveal which. Dipping resulted in a heavier and rougher surface from sheets that were electroplated.

If there are vents around the top, then why think about fumigation. A fumigation process would likely want to prevent gasses escaping.

Whatever was in the front compartment, it must have been thought necessary to keep it isolated from whatever was in the main body.

I think it was built for specific chassis (one or more) , because of the wheel arches.

If it was a live animal carrier, wouldn't there be a loading ramp. ?
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science museum



Joined: 19 Feb 2015
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again

The one thing we are sure about this van body is that it was used for transporting personal belongings to be fumigated. We acquired it from Lambeth Council's Enviromental Services Dept, where it had been sitting for many years. The fumigation itself would have taken place elsewhere, but having transported 'infested' belongings it needed to be cleaned effectively - hence the lining.

Our hope it to shed light on the maker / model as this can help us pin down when in was active. We have so focussed on c1920-1940, during which time there are references made to an Albion, two Ford's and two Morris's being used as fumigation vans (and we also have a possible reference to a Bedford).

As for the outer surface, it's wood of some type. While the sides were painted, there was originally a 'fabric' covering over the roof planks which apparently 'blew off in a storm' shortly before it was given to us.

Ongoing thanks

Stewart
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roverdriver



Joined: 18 Oct 2008
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Location: 100 miles from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some measurements might help identify which chassis of motor vehicle it might have fitted. The distance from the front of the body to the center of the rear mudguard could establish an approximate length of chassis (one would have to guestimate the distance from the front of the chassis to the front of the body) . An examination of the underside might show the points where the frame was in contact with a metal chassis and that could help too, for example, a Ford T or TT chassis had no crossmembers apart from the very front and the very rear.

It is just possible that somewhere there is either an inked 'brand' or a stamped mark (that is pressed into the wood) giving maker, or numbers that might give a clue. Such a mark would usually be somewhere around the front, usually on a vertical surface.

Your photos don't show the very front of the body. That might offer some clues. Is there a driver's seat there, or evidence of one having been there?

A painted canvas roof would be a fairly usual feature of a body of this period. Often supported by lathes, a canvas cover with several coats of paint was quite waterproof.
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PAUL BEAUMONT



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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Location: Barnsley S. Yorks

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have watched this with interest and a couple of thoughts that have not yet been expressed: Emmerson's point is interesting in that the body has no cab. I would have thought, for its period, that it would have had at least an integral "C" cab. The fact that it does not makes me wonder if it was a trailer and not a van in its own right.
Probably the most useful measurement would be those of the fixings that once attached it to a chassis and maybe any sort of rust markings etc on the underside that might indicate where the chassis touched it etc. I suspect the sentiment that it was purpose built is correct and that the craftsman possibly built it on its chassis so any details from beneath it could be invaluable in trying to pinpoint a likely chassis.

Paul
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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Science Museum Web pages for "Bug Van"

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/online_science/explore_our_collections/objects/index/smxg-148076

The text of the notice is interesting. Could we have an image that is easier to read ?

A film of slum housing, infestation treatment and new housing. London 1935

http://www.londonsscreenarchives.org.uk/public/details.php?id=241

Motor vans with what looks like steel lining. BLP 360 and YY6875

Please Note: There is a section that shows creepy crawlies, not for the squeamish.

Vehicles appear 11:46 and 16:25

I never lived in London and this film is before my time but I do remember slum areas in Barnsley, Sheffield and Birmingham.

OCC Forum, certainly deals with a wide range of subjects.
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science museum



Joined: 19 Feb 2015
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks for further comments.

Re Paul's comments: My feeling is that is it was not a trailer, but, as you also suggest, quite possibly purpose built for a particular chassis. And it is identifying the chassis that could help us pinpoint it in time.

Further clues may well be on the van body and I will try and get one of my colleagues to investigate further (it's currently out in Wiltshire in one of the former aircraft hangars that we use to store our larger objects)

Thanks

Stewart
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22429
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

science museum wrote:
...

Further clues may well be on the van body and I will try and get one of my colleagues to investigate further (it's currently out in Wiltshire in one of the former aircraft hangars that we use to store our larger objects)

Thanks

Stewart


now that sounds like a place it'd be interesting to have a look around Smile

RJ
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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Location: Swindon, Wilts.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I don't see how it could be a trailer with the wheel arches that far back.

Rick
Here is a teaser for you, it was the only shot I got inside the day I went, battery failed and no spares with me.


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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A window cleaner's truck ? Smile or maybe the Dennis fire engine at the Science Museum, Swindon Smile

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRkoPg46sA8

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejp9jYTLjRY
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Swindon, Wilts.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Peter
That's the easy one, what about the three aircraft.

I was actually using teaser in a different sense as in I was being a tease by showing what he can't currently go and see.
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Bristols should always come in pairs.

Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10
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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Penman wrote:
Hi Peter
That's the easy one, what about the three aircraft.

I was actually using teaser in a different sense as in I was being a tease by showing what he can't currently go and see.


You know what, I had an idea you would ask that question. When did the guys on here become clever. ? Laughing Laughing
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ka



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 600
Location: Orkney.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brings back memories looking at the Dennis, I did my initial training using one of these and a Green Goddess. The older hands told some interesting stories about the petrol engined Dennis, by the time I had passed my HGV, I drove an ERF, with a wheeled escape hanging off the back. No power steering, drum brakes, 5 speed crash box, you certainly learnt to be in the correct gear entering a corner to drive through and out of it, and brakes where you had one of two good stops. then faded away just like early Minis.
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Better three than four.
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