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1952 Morris Minor Series MM saloon
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kevin2306



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
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Location: nr Llangollen, north wales

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the motor would benefit from doing an oil change with some turbo diesel oil and see if the cleans it up a bit?

Kevin
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
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Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevin2306 wrote:
I wonder if the motor would benefit from doing an oil change with some turbo diesel oil and see if the cleans it up a bit?

Kevin


It might come to it, I went the long way to the local pub meet this evening to get some heat around things. On starting it from cold(ish), it spluttered for about 20 seconds then came on song fine, like flicking a switch. At the pub I started it a couple of times no problem. On leaving, it spluttered for approx 5 seconds then cleared up, so I took it for another drive (maybe 12 miles or so) before returning home. I suspect there must be some sticky gloop still in one or two valve guides, the plan is to give it some regular use over the next few days and see if it improves matters.

Apart from the start-up wobbles, it drives really well.

RJ
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Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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Rick
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd prefer to avoid doing an engine flush, but I may end up removing the rocker shaft again to check that the oil feed in the front pedestal is clear (and the corresponding feed from the block).

Dad turned up in his Moggy too, so a chance to photo the two together Smile



RJ
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Rick (OCC Admin)
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Rick
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went to start it this morning, same story.

With the rocker cover off, valves 2 and 3 were clearly stuck open. Eventually I persuaded it to start on two cylinders. This encouraged valve 3 (cylinder 2) to join the party, and with a little encouragement, valve 2 (cyl 1) freed up and the engine ran sweetly.

With it running I doused both valves and springs with two stroke oil. Neither valve appeared to be bent or corroded when I had them out the other day.

Perhaps there's still a bit of gloop in both valves guides still? Perhaps the springs are a little weak? or maybe a combination of the two .....

RJ
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps a good long run would sort things out?

Dave
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Rick
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukdave2002 wrote:
Perhaps a good long run would sort things out?

Dave


I'm clinging onto that hope Smile

I bought some oil additive designed to free stuck hydraulic lifters and sticky valves, so I may try adding that to see if it helps.

RJ
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MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 641
Location: Northern MA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick
I just re-read the previous page!
You've had all the valves out, so they can't be gummy!
The rocker shaft oil feed is easy enough to check without dismantling - it should splash oil all over the nice clean engine. I have to say I've never seen a push-rod bent as much as that - surely the rocker shaft must have seized at some point & presumably replaced.

Which only leaves the cam followers - I'd be tempted to give them all a direct soaking with PlusGas or acetone or diesel or auto trans fluid & leave them overnight to dissolve the gum.

The fuel sender will probably free off in time unless there's an electrical issue.

Then fresh petrol & a few long runs & she'll be running like - a Morris Minor.

Nice car.
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Rick
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave it an oil change last night, the cheapo 20/50 had done about 50-55 miles so I dropped it out and replaced it with a "classic" 20/50. Considering it had seen little use, the oil that came out didn't seem to have much body to it at all.

If valves 2 and 3 continue to stick (the followers are moving fine, it's the valves that are sticking open - see photo, valves stuck down and the rockers raised), I'll pull the head again and have another look.

There seems to be plenty of oil circulating in the vicinity of the rockers, and the top in general. I do wonder whether the springs are a little tired.



RJ
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bjacko



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
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Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:56 am    Post subject: Morris Minor Reply with quote

Push rods often get bent when tappets are adjusted incorrectly or when a head has been machined and the tappets not adjusted accordingly. Many years ago I had a Corolla which had a head problem on a replacement engine and I was supplied a replacement head with all the valve gear and after installing I found some the push rods bent. I found the head was thinner than the original and just tightening the head down bent some push rods.. They gave me another engine as the fix!!
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colwyn500



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
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Location: Nairn, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Morris Minor Reply with quote

bjacko wrote:
Push rods often get bent when tappets are adjusted incorrectly or when a head has been machined and the tappets not adjusted accordingly. Many years ago I had a Corolla which had a head problem on a replacement engine and I was supplied a replacement head with all the valve gear and after installing I found some the push rods bent. I found the head was thinner than the original and just tightening the head down bent some push rods.. They gave me another engine as the fix!!


We can assume that Rick torqued down the head and fixed on the rocker shaft afterwards to avoid this problem. And so long as there was some tappet clearance when adjusted, a bent pushrod could only occur if the valve had some serious seizure in the guide or had impacted on a piston because of an over-machined head or block surface or use of an incorrect combination of piston and/or con-rod.
I suspect that the valve-guides may have been replaced and that there is insufficient clearance on them so thet the valves are being gripped as the guide inner diameter shrinks when hot as the valve stem expands slightly. Maybe the light use of the correct reamer would help?
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Rick
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Morris Minor Reply with quote

colwyn500 wrote:
bjacko wrote:
Push rods often get bent when tappets are adjusted incorrectly or when a head has been machined and the tappets not adjusted accordingly. Many years ago I had a Corolla which had a head problem on a replacement engine and I was supplied a replacement head with all the valve gear and after installing I found some the push rods bent. I found the head was thinner than the original and just tightening the head down bent some push rods.. They gave me another engine as the fix!!


We can assume that Rick torqued down the head and fixed on the rocker shaft afterwards to avoid this problem. And so long as there was some tappet clearance when adjusted, a bent pushrod could only occur if the valve had some serious seizure in the guide or had impacted on a piston because of an over-machined head or block surface or use of an incorrect combination of piston and/or con-rod.
I suspect that the valve-guides may have been replaced and that there is insufficient clearance on them so thet the valves are being gripped as the guide inner diameter shrinks when hot as the valve stem expands slightly. Maybe the light use of the correct reamer would help?


Today it started better from cold on two occasions, with just a momentary stutter second time of trying, this afternoon. Driving it around it performed fine as before. I'll try again tomorrow ...!

RJ

PS the rocker assembly is held down in part by a number of head nuts, so they had to be torqued at the same time. However I made sure all the adjusters were well backed off, so as to save the rods from any possible problems with the rockers.

RJ
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Rick
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We used the Moggy to attend the local motorcycle gathering, again it started pretty well considering, just a slight stutter then ran aok. So far it's done about 90 miles in the last week-and-a-bit.

RJ
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norustplease



Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A new set of valve springs might help.
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Rick
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

norustplease wrote:
A new set of valve springs might help.


I found a NOS set of springs in my A40 spares haul yesterday, so if necessary I'll swap them over.

Lately the cold starts have been much better, and things appear to be settling down as I'd hoped they would.

The starter packed up after a couple of wobbles, so I replaced that with a used one "from stock" (ie one of several that came as spares with the A55 Cambridge I used to run, that I hung on to just in case). The original motor wouldn't play ball despite checking the brushes etc, so simplest was to swap it for a good spare.

I also swapped the exhaust/inlet manifold. The joint to the head wasn't 100% due to some corrosion on the mating surface near the bulkhead. 5 sourced another from t'internet, so that's now in place with another new gasket. It sounds a lot smoother now, plus the replacement doesn't have the vacuum take-off on it, which is no longer required after disabling the servo.

While looking through various spare carbs I found a 1.5" SU on a suitable manifold, so one day I might fit that for a little extra "pep", not that it needs it really.

RJ
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As there was a test day taking place at Oulton Park today, we headed over there to spectate, giving the Moggy another run out in the process.

Amazingly, as we were sat waiting to turn right into the lane that heads to the circuit from the main road, another split-screen Minor (a grey Series II) came the other way, so waves were exchanged Smile

Two photos of the MM with the famous Lodge (of Lodge Corner fame) in the background.




While parked up, one circuit employee pulled up in his van to reminisce about a Minor he restored in the 1970s, while another spectator told us of how he used to drive Minor vans for BT years ago.

RJ
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