Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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Paul fairall
Joined: 17 Nov 2016 Posts: 429 Location: North west Kent
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:46 pm Post subject: 8HP and 10HP gearbox |
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Excuse my ignorance but not had my pop long and learning about the different models. According to the V5 mine you should be a 10HP with the engine number starting with C. But the person I bought it from said the person he bought it from said it was 8HP. The engine number starts with R which is a factory replacement but I cannot see any other numbers.
Now I know to remove the head to find out and that's fine but what I would like to know if the 8HP and 10 HP had different gearboxes. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Posts: 1950 Location: East Yorkshire
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Yes, they had different 1st & 2nd gear ratios....[because the 8hp was less powerful, so needed some help]...top gear is the same in all the boxes, regardless..ie, direct drive.
Other than that, physically they were the same, and are interchangeable. In fact, on can, by stripping, make an 8hp gearbox into a 10 hp box, and vice versa..or, one fit even lower gear ratios from some of the 100E boxes.
I gave you a link to the gear ratio tables form the Dellow register site...
If you remove the gear lever by unscrewing the cap on top of the gearbox [ensure the box is in neutral first!!!]....then undo the four bolts holding the top cover on...this will come off, and includes the selectors.
The gear nearest the front, on top,is the 'main drive gear'....mark one tooth with a dot of tippex, then, rotate the gear, counting the teeth.
A 10 hp box will have 15 teeth, an 8 hp box will have 14 teeth.
The gearwheel underneath this gear[and engaged with it] is called 'countershaft wheel one'.....in the 10hp box it will have 29 teeth, the 8hp box has 30 teeth, if you can be bothered to count them.
The other gears are all the same size.
If your engine has been changed to an 8 hp , it is unlikely the gearbox will have been changed as well. |
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Paul fairall
Joined: 17 Nov 2016 Posts: 429 Location: North west Kent
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Alastair, I checked the links you posted and noticed the different ratios. Is think you are right about the gearbox being for the 10HP as it struggles to get away. I will check it when I have time. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Posts: 1950 Location: East Yorkshire
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Don't expect miracles of performance, will you?
Given the weight of the car [actually, not that much?]...the revs may need to be taken higher than normal, to get into 2nd gear.
These were no road burners...but simple, reliable, A-to-B transport.
Once moving, treat the engine like it was a diesel....in other words, use the bottom-end torque, which it was well endowed with..rather than high end BHP.
A wheeze to give you an 'apparently' improved performance, [especially if you actually do have an 8 hp engine instead..which wouldn't be standard]....would be, to obtain a pair/set of wheels [and tyres, of course] from the Ford Prefect [E493A]....these were 16 inch diameter, as distinct from yours [if original] which would be 17 inch diameter.
The Prefect was fitted with 16 inch wheels, because it was a very much heavier car, for the same engine, as the Anglia/Popular. {Longer wheelbase, too...so don't try fitting the torque tube and axle]...and Ford found it struggled, performance-wise.
Fitting the 16 inch wheels , will lower your gearing, in effect....giving you an improvement in acceleration, but a lower top speed.
This mod will have the same effect even with a 10 hp engine, or a 100E.
In fact, if you can get hold of sufficient 16 inchers, then fit a pair with Michlein Taxi tyres, at 175x16.
These will give an increased rolling radius, thereby upping the apparent gearing, for better cruising revs.
I have found that, the Kingpin Remould Taxi tyres [175x16], when fitted, have a marginally bigger rolling radius than the Michelin Taxis....for even more relaxed cruising revs.
All with the same 5.5:1 final drive ratio.
So you can play around with the wheels and tyres, and experiment.
[The 16 inch wheels give you access to ranges of tyres the 17 inchers do not] |
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Paul fairall
Joined: 17 Nov 2016 Posts: 429 Location: North west Kent
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that
I've only driven it once when taking it home in pouring rain and fading light so top speed was 45rpm. Once I've fitted the new indicators I've bought as the near side indicator is still hit and miss after working on it, I will take it out in daylight and dry conditions to see how it goes. As my work as an electrician is mostly with a tyre company I can get to measure different tyres and know the diameters, that should help with making a decision on tyre and wheel sizes. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Posts: 1950 Location: East Yorkshire
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Your choices of available tyre sizes will be quiet limited in practice......unless you want to pay out many many hundreds of quids per tyre?
You are primarily limited to cross ply tyres......the width of the rims is a limiting factor....and you'll also need inner tubes.
Whilst the taxi tyres I mentioned are radials, they have a high number of plies in their carcasses, so have very stiff sidewalls.
I have them fitted to the rear wheels of my Dellow....[which uses the same gearbox & axle combination as your Pop]....but Dellow had always fitted larger section tyres to their rear wheels.
Easy to obtain wheel diameters for upright Fords are 16 inch, 17 inch...and one can come across even larger diameter wheels from the E83W Fordson and Thames commercial vehicles.
Have you managed to obtain an upright Ford rear hub puller yet? This is an essential tool, without which you will not be able to service the rear brakes. |
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Paul fairall
Joined: 17 Nov 2016 Posts: 429 Location: North west Kent
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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alastairq wrote: | Your choices of available tyre sizes will be quiet limited in practice......unless you want to pay out many many hundreds of quids per tyre?
You are primarily limited to cross ply tyres......the width of the rims is a limiting factor....and you'll also need inner tubes.
Whilst the taxi tyres I mentioned are radials, they have a high number of plies in their carcasses, so have very stiff sidewalls.
I have them fitted to the rear wheels of my Dellow....[which uses the same gearbox & axle combination as your Pop]....but Dellow had always fitted larger section tyres to their rear wheels.
Easy to obtain wheel diameters for upright Fords are 16 inch, 17 inch...and one can come across even larger diameter wheels from the E83W Fordson and Thames commercial vehicles.
Have you managed to obtain an upright Ford rear hub puller yet? This is an essential tool, without which you will not be able to service the rear brakes. | i will probably make one, a photo of one would help.
I have two ideas regarding wheels, one is to have the wheels banded to bring the tyres closer to the wings under the arches. The other is to make some hub adaptors from the pops stud pattern to 108pcd. This will bring whatever wheels I decide on closer to the wings. I saw a pop in the gallery of rods'nsods that what looked like steel wheels with hub caps that were closer to the arches but the car looked almost standard, what rodders call a sleeper, because this particular car had a big engine. All I would like to do is reverseable. As I said tyre choice is infinite depending on tube availability.
Last edited by Paul fairall on Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Peter_L
Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 2680 Location: New Brunswick. Canada.
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Years back I came across the one that my dad had when he had 100E's. |
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Rootes75
Joined: 30 Apr 2013 Posts: 3788 Location: The Somerset Levels
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I made my first pulled for my Ford when I was at college in the workshops, that was many years back. I found one at Beaulieu a few years after that. _________________ Various Rootes Vehicles. |
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