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Lanchester LD10 pre-select gearbox problem
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Sid



Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 76
Location: From whence cometh the mighty Lagonda

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Lanchester LD10 pre-select gearbox problem Reply with quote

I've only had the car a fortnight, and apart from driving it on and off the trailer and into my garage I've not driven it properly. When changing gear, the gear selector lever feels imprecise rather than having a distinctive feeling as I assume it should have. Also it's stuck in one of the forward gears and won't go into neutral, and the gear change pedal doesn't come all the way back up level with the brake pedal.
All the linkages have been removed, cleaned and greased, the oil changed in the gearbox and the fluid flywheel topped up.
Anyone have any experience that can shine a light on the problem please?
Regards
Sid
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Swindon, Wilts.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
This is from an Odhams Motor Manual
Quote:
PRESELECTOR GEARBOXES So far we have dealt with the conventional types of gearbox. The Wilson or Daimler preselector differs, of course, both in principle and operation from these types. Lubrication is just as important; with this type of box, in fact, the oil level should be checked at 3,000-mile intervals, and the gearbox should be drained and refilled every 6,000 miles. On some boxes the drain plug acts as a stop for the bus bar, therefore, ensure that it is replaced, otherwise the movement of the bus bar may be restricted just sufficiently to stop the toggle fingers from dropping into or out of engagement.
Adjustment of the Gearbox. The brake bands which bring the epicyclic gear trains into action are provided with automatic adjusters which are operated by the movement of the gear-changing pedal, and which compensate for normal wear of the friction linings. As the linings bed down more quickly than usual when the car is new, however, the adjustment may be insufficient under these conditions, and slip may be experienced. This can be overcome by selecting the gear or gears on which slipping is present, with the engine stationary, and depressing and releasing the pedal ten or fifteen times. If a gear slips in normal service, the cause is usually due to some external fault, such as incorrectly adjusted pedal linkage, or binding of the pedal on its shaft. A clearance of between 1/4in and 1/2in must exist between the pedal and the floorboards or the back stop when it is fully released with a gear engaged; adjustment is carried out at the tie-rod coupling the pedal to the gearbox lever. If this does not cure the trouble, an adjustment can be carried out on the automatic adjuster inside the gearbox, after the lid has been removed, but this is rarely required, and should preferably be left to an expert. The owner who wishes to service the gearbox himself should apply to the manufacturers of the car or of the gearbox for an illustrated instruction book which describes both the principles of operation and the method of servicing very fully.


There is a diagram but I am having trouble uploading that to postimage because my new server doesn't like it.

Will try again later.

Got it now.



FIG. 10. Diagram showing one unit of the brake harness in a preselector gearbox. The normal wear of the brakebands are automatically adjusted, but further adjustment can be made on the adjusting nut situated on the rocking plate. As this is a very delicate operation it is recommended that the adjustment be left to the manufacturer or an experienced mechanic.
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Last edited by Penman on Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These explanatory & maintenance notes/diagrams for the pre-selector 'box are on the main site.

http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/library/wilsonpreselector.htm

RJ
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Minxy



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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Location: West Northants

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good day to you.
I also have an Ld 10. I haven't driven mine for some time as it is currently undergoing quite a bit of work. Several things.
My gear change pedal is not level with the brake and I am not aware they should be.
There is some info on ld10awardspace.com
There is plenty of info in the Lanchester section of the DLOC forum.
I have a copy of the Fluid Flywheel and Epicyclic Gearbox manual as produced by Daimler. If it is of any help I can make a copy of it and post it to you.

Martyn
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Sid



Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 76
Location: From whence cometh the mighty Lagonda

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the answers.
Looks like I'll have to take the top off first to make sure all the bits are in the right place.
Am I right in thinking that the gear selector lever should "click" into place, rather than just slide smoothly. Surely you don't need to be looking at it when driving just to see if it's in the right place?
Martyn, thanks for the offer, if I get really stuck that might be an option, but I'd rather not put you to that much trouble atm.
Cheers
Sid
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Rick
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've moved a Daimler with a pre-selector, I don't recall it clicking into gear position as such on the column change lever, more just dropping into a position, if you see what I mean. The engagement pedal on the floor rested at a different height, depending on whether it was in neutral or a specific gear.

RJ
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A an early age, I trained with London Transport as a bus driver.

The buses used were AEC RT deckers..both in training, test, and subsequent work.

They had pre-selector gearboxes.

The gear selector lever ran in a 'gate...with each gear position being a different distance from the centre.

There was no positive click, or resistance, other than the end of the slot...and it was easy, when selecting top gear, for the lever to 'bounce' back in the slot, to a position which would be just above the 2nd gear position.

Thus, when the operating pedal was depressed & released, it would be 2nd gear that was acquired, not top gear.
This resulted in your conductor being catapulted down the centre aisle of the bus towards the front, as the bus stood on its nose-end. If they were upstairs at the time, one heard what sounded like a drum roll of feet above one's head. Needless to say, guess who bought the teas at the end of the run?

There should be no problem, when driving, in taking a glance at the selector quadrant when selecting the next gear required. One advantage of the pre-select gearbox [aside from strength]...is that gear selection is done at what amounts to a 'quiet' time in the driver's schedule. Unlike with a manual gearbox, when selection is achieved at what is a very busy time for the driver...ie, with immediacy.
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Minxy



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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Location: West Northants

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick wrote:
I've moved a Daimler with a pre-selector, I don't recall it clicking into gear position as such on the column change lever, more just dropping into a position, if you see what I mean. The engagement pedal on the floor rested at a different height, depending on whether it was in neutral or a specific gear.

RJ


Agree with Rick, it's difficult to explain but no it does not have a definite 'click' just a slight resistance between the gears, and agree now reminded the gear change pedal is at a different height when gears are selected.


Oh and it really is no problem copying the manual it's only 30 pages and won't take any time at all on the copier at work. Just PM me your address if you change your mind.....old car ownership is about helping each other.
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Sid



Joined: 20 Sep 2017
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Location: From whence cometh the mighty Lagonda

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh and it really is no problem copying the manual it's only 30 pages and won't take any time at all on the copier at work. Just PM me your address if you change your mind.....old car ownership is about helping each other.

Thank you very much, in that case you have a PM
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petelang



Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 442
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all pre selector boxes, the pedal position varies with each selected gear. The pedal only comes all the way back up when in Neutral. As you cannot get yours out of gear the pedal will remain low. The selector gate is not very clearly defined but there should be a sort of dimple that the lever falls into to feel the gear. The problem may be that there is excessive wear in a part of the linkage and there needs to be virtually none. Check all pins and ball joints for slack and eliminate play. Check the gear change pedal is not obstructed, it must achieve full travel to disengage each gear. You have to press the pedal right to the floor to get clean shifts and to maintain the toggle adjustment feature. Try pumping the pedal ten times all the way to the floor, then selecting each gear and doing the same. This should adjust each band by itself. You need to cure any slack before though in the linkages.
Join the DLOC forum for more specific great advice (it doesn't cost anything) and join the DLOC club as there is a great deal of knowledge on there.
If the worst scenario and your gearbox needs professional attention, Graham Whitehouse autos in Cumbria is the countries foremost expert on these transmissions.
These gearboxes are extremely long life and virtually indestructible unless abused extensively. Remember to drive it as a "pre select" and never slip the brake band driving using the gear change pedal as a"clutch" as this causes a lot of band wear and heat damage.
Peter
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greenbeam



Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Posts: 85
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,
Peter Meyer (https://www.vorwahlgetriebe.de/) is another Wilson Pre-Select guru. He sells a book on servicing & overhauling them and runs an overhaul business.

As to selecting the gears, it is common wisdom that you move the selector just past the gear you want, then let the selector 'fall' back to the detent for that gear. That seems to reduce the chance of selecting a false neutral (and, I suspect, overcomes worn linkages to some degree).

The gearchange pedal sits at different height for neutral and when in gear.

There is also a procedure for the non-solenoid boxes called 'pumping up', where (with the engine off) you press and release the change pedal some 10 times in each gear. This is designed to activate the band self-adjustment to reduce slipping.

Hope that helps.
Paul.
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