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Our cars and LPG (split)
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2402
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:58 pm    Post subject: Our cars and LPG (split) Reply with quote

baconsdozen wrote:
I think Im doing well if my range rover does 14mpg. I suppose I could but a smart car or one of those eco things but I think Id rater walk.


I have had my (4.6 petrol) Range Rover converted to LPG. Best thing I ever did. It runs smoother, is more responsive and the gas is half the price of petrol. I think the experts say run on silver electrode plugs but they don't last long. Apart from the conversion and having the garage set it up properly on their equipment, the next best thing I did was fit a new set of leads. I can't be bothered to check the fuel consumption; it all goes down as a business expense anyway, I just know it costs half as much as petrol.
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baconsdozen



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 1109
Location: Under the car.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mileage on the range rover is very limited,otherwise a gas conversion would be a great idea.
I enjoy the range rover it wafts along in a typical rover fashion. I think the p38 range will one day be looked upon as classics,
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2402
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconsdozen wrote:
My mileage on the range rover is very limited,otherwise a gas conversion would be a great idea.
I enjoy the range rover it wafts along in a typical rover fashion. I think the p38 range will one day be looked upon as classics,


If you are right, I had better hold onto my 2000 P38 as it is in exceptional condition with a specially ordered Nappa leather interior amongst other things.




(horizontal scrolling fixed, RJ)
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 907
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
I have had my (4.6 petrol) Range Rover converted to LPG. Best thing I ever did. It runs smoother, is more responsive and the gas is half the price of petrol. I think the experts say run on silver electrode plugs but they don't last long. Apart from the conversion and having the garage set it up properly on their equipment, the next best thing I did was fit a new set of leads. I can't be bothered to check the fuel consumption; it all goes down as a business expense anyway, I just know it costs half as much as petrol.

Same experience here. I have a two door RR which I fitted a LPG system (underfloor tank). Runs very smooth. This was my daily car for a few years - all my bigger cars I have converted to LPG. Running costs are much lower and usually the engine runs better too (Jaguar 4.2 and Triumph 2000). Recommended!
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2402
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is a technical explanation for why LPG gives better combustion. From what I can ascertain from the spark an initially tiny fireball of burning mixture grows rapidly as the flame front moves outward. With petrol this is about 35cm/sec but with LPG it is a more rapid 45cm/sec.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 863
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A local enthusiast used to run [as a daily driver] a disreputable Aston MArtin V8.....bought very cheaply, with tatty paintwork....which had to run on what was once known as 5 star fuel [100 octane].
Rather than apply the cost s of additives [100 octane not being available at the pumps]....he fitted an LPG set-up.....which, of course, behaves like 100 octane fuel.

A neighbour runs a Series 3 L/Rover with a 2 1/4 litre petrol. This is a 'working' vehicle....... recently found problem wear in the engine....supposedly due to the lack of additives found in today's petrol?

Has now fitted a very neat metering device that drips 'oil' [additives?] into the induction system...Very simple...not at all costly. Bottles of additive can be found on ebay......and there's even a gizmo to tell the driver when the bottle is empty!

Mind, he really has updated the old beast....it has electric heated mirrors, and a home made demisting system that demists the parts the Land Rover could never hope to reach!

Plus, a cheap ebay camera & screen to help him back up to his trailer and couple up with ease....[he works alone, so the flapping hand method is unobtainable.]
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3273
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

16 years ago I had an lpg system fitted to a 2001 Omega. It was the simple "carburetor/mixer" lpg system that didn't interface with any of the Vauxhall's management system. It had to be started on petrol and manually switched over to lpg after a couple of mins.

I covered 150,000 miles with lpg over a 4 year period, and when I sold the car it was still all running fine. No fuel additives were ever used, the only additional maintenance required were plug changes every 10,000 miles, a couple of ignition lead changes and a couple of coil packs.

Cost me around 1k for the conversion, which was quickly recovered.

Dave
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 863
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the issues of wear focus on valve seats...much like the unleaded issue?
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2402
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
I think the issues of wear focus on valve seats...much like the unleaded issue?


This is the compromise. Some engines do better on LPG than others. Yes, the burn is hotter than petrol - but not that much more since they have been putting ethanol into it. As you need to be licensed in this country to fit LPG to pressurised systems as opposed to normally aspirated (carburettor) engines I would take the advice of the professional installers. If you need to upgrade your cylinder head for unleaded then it might be worth doing that at the same time.

I personally think we are facing a major problem in the not too distant future where with the rise in popularity of electric vehicles and the move away from petrol and Diesel, obtaining the traditional fuel will become progressively more difficult. I don't think anything will happen over night but hopefully with cleaner emissions and it's price advantage, LPG will continue to be offered and may well come to the rescue of our hobby.
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1069
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also a dyed-in-the-wool LPG convert, having had one 3.5 Range Rover, and two 4.2 LSE Range Rovers over the last twenty years. When I bought the first one, gas was 22p per litre!
My current LSE has a BLOS LPG "carburetter" which works like a SU carb, giving much smoother running, and also an electronic thingy which varies the timing as required for optimum performance and clean emissions for MOT.
With an engine rebuild 26,000 miles ago with an improved camshaft and now a remap, the car is about as good as its going to get.
Like Ray, I don't closely check mpg, but I usually get around 200 miles per refill of around 80 litres, towing or solo.
Locally, gas varies from 53.9 to 65.9p, but I noticed last week that Shell motorway services now charge 85.9p, which is extortionate!
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Keith D



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 861
Location: Upper Swan, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am also an enthusiast for LPG. I ran my Jeep for years on gas. (4 litre push rod straight six cylinder) I am currently running my Mitsubishi Magna on gas (3.5 litre OHC V6) In both cases my experience has been very good. It is also a "cleaner" fuel than petrol.

I was told that the electrical system had to be 60% better for gas (whatever that means!) and that after many thousands of kms in both cars I have experienced no problems whatsoever with head, valve, or even engines generally. Admittedly both engines were designed for lead-free petrol.

LPG in Australia is pure propane. In the UK it is a mixture of gases so properties and consumption probably differ. I start my car on gas without need for petrol. In fact, until I select petrol with a manual switch on the facia panel, it will always use LPG! I can't give consumption figures because when I need fuel, I just fill up! Whatever! It's part of motoring.

I don't know how much longer we will have LPG available in Western Australia. We had Federal and State Government grants that actually paid for the whole installation on my vehicles a few years ago. These grants have now vanished and LPG is creeping up in price until it is now more than 3/4 of petrol prices. Very few people are bothering with getting new installations and as a consequence, several garages near me have removed their gas bowsers and more are reported to be following. A hell of a shame really, especially as the gas is available locally.

Keith
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2402
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That really is worrying, Keith. The future of our hobby may depend on us operating vehicles with clean engines and LPG seems to offer a practical solution. I will raise the matter with my M.P.

Thanks for sharing and giving us the heads up on a problem that may be coming our way.
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 19404
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LPG conversation probably wants splitting off into its own thread, my old Disco runs well on it and the difference between petrol and gas is marginal, although on the former it is slightly smoother and more responsive, but to be fair the difference is barely noticeable. I have it plugged in to a laptop and checked once or twice a year usually. New coil packs, leads and plugs were worthwhile.

There aren't too many places around here that sell it though, so a certain amount of planning is required on longer trips. Saying that, the car doesn't get used all that often so it's not really an issue. The cost saving is significant.

RJ
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
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Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the new LPG thread, I've pulled out the LPG-related posts from the P6 Rover thread and created this new one specific to this subject.

Ray's latest posting on the subject (this was in a new thread which I've since removed and placed here instead):

"I would like to know if we think that LPG has a future in our hobby? The rise and rise of electric cars is making me wonder if petrol will eventually be demonised in the same way Diesel has? There is no question, LPG is cleaner - in fact a vehicle so equipped is not required to pass an M.O.T. emissions test- and as such I believe it may be the only alternative to petrol, should it become difficult to obtain at some time in the (hopefully distant) future."
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3273
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith D wrote:
I was told that the electrical system had to be 60% better for gas (whatever that means!) Keith


In any ignition system the voltage rises in the coil until its high enough to fire the spark plug, if the mixture is weaker thus drier the voltage needs to be higher. So with a LPG system the mixture in the cylinder requires the voltage to be higher than required when running on petrol.

So any breakdown in the leads, plugs coil etc will cause a misfire on lpg , but may work fine on petrol.

Hence better plugs or more frequent change is required, coil packs and leads will also fail sooner than on petrol.

Dave
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