Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[V8 Nutter]

Big business has avoided investing in technology, short term profit has been the aim. More recently, say the last 50 years. The best short term profit has been close the factory and sell the land for development. then we have the unions, their aim has been to fight management rather than work with them. Ford is probably the best example of that

[Ray White]

[ukdave2002]

[Clactonguy]

agree we seeing car industry slowly decaying . often a result of either management or workers in Uk in a constant combative area rather than working with each other.
unlike say Japanese whom have a 100 year plan and. think workers are important here in UK anybody whom is a blue collar worker is seen as expendable and of a lower status.
manufacturing is in steep decline due to costs here versus abroad. aware Nissan doing ok. ( using Japanese practices )
Ford almost. extinct here. however it thats mainly as. closing a german plant is around 10 times more costly than closing a uk one. plus. land in Uk is. shooting up in value.. soon all be housing estates . however with No manufacturing base.. economy is headed for rocks.

[alastairq]

Many old factory sites, like prime MoD land, can't get residential planning permission.

The MoD have been on about flogging Deepcut for over a decade or more [to my knowledge]...they're just starting yet another rumour........

All down to the type of planning permission they can get.


Frontline workers would like stability of employment..... Government & managers would like them to be insecure.....that is my experience.

[Clactonguy]

though we are all aware EU. will make life very difficult for us now we are technically leaving .hence its insistence on 'protecting 'the 3 million EU citizens living here ' ( UK government already conceded full EU rights will apply over UK laws etc) we are all aware that difficult economic situations will arrive as any trading 'deals' will be subject to UK remaining under EU jurisdiction and trading laws etc so in effect we will be a vassel state of EU and not an independent nation.
democracy is not allowed to prevail as economics take precedence . all parties agree that its in UK's 'best interests' to agree all EU demands and in reality not actually leave!
the man in the street is aware job losses .trading difficulties will occur but what country that has fought for its freedom to self govern has not suffered this ? we are lucky it isn\t an actual war.
sadly democracy is not going to be allowed to flourish in UK.

[Ray White]

[Phil - Nottingham]

I agree entirely with Ray but the problem with GB doing it alone is that they go over top and so-called "gold plate" EU regs to make even more red-tape.

To keep commentary on cars this is why we have retained 1 year MOT's when some EU countries have opted for 2-year ones.

We are fortunate this government are classic car friendly - subsequent ones of a different colour may not be as shown in the past.

I doubt when we do leave the EU there will be any fewer rules than there are now.

Noone knows what will happen after the end of March but whatever did it will be nothing like what has been predicted and the world, the EU and especially us will carry on
_________________
Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2

[petelang]

I'm sorry guys but I feel that the whole country has gone nuts.
I used to work for Leyland (Bus). There were never union troubles, the company made a good profit, built great world acclaimed products but because it was part of the state owned BL it was investment starved. Margaret Thatcher could not wait to get rid of BL in its entirety, mainly because of Red Robbo and the troublesome car unions. So we were flogged off to a management consortium, the gang of six as known.
They mortgaged their homes and found the money somewhere but it was not a lot, so they took a bit of risk. They then proceeded to bugger the company up and look for a gullible buyer. They all retired as multi millionaires and we all got taken over by Volvo.
In the intervening few years we had gone from profitable to loss making, made product that was poor and lost 60%:export market share. In my opinion, the gang should have been locked up.
Just a few years later Volvo just about dissolved what was left and the company that had built buses for the world, including 98% of ALL the world's double dockers was gone forever.
We were affected by poor government decisions, short term budgeting, lack of control and regulation and thundering lack of investment. The story has been repeated time and again throughout British Industrial history.
I admit, I don't know how the Germans do so well but I know they are bloody front runners whenever it comes to investment and long term planning. They also seem to have intelligent political people compared to the complete bunch of idiots we have in charge of running this country.
In my local area we have redundant commercial sites and a horrendous traffic problem in the mornings because there are no local jobs for local people. So, everyone has to get in their car and clog up the roads. What does the local council, eagerly assisted by government do? They insist on building loads of new houses on the "brownfield" land, thereby adding to the number of commuters looking to go to work outside the area.
It's not rocket science, but what we need is investing in local smart start up businesses, cheap accommodation for high tech industries to employ and train our unemployed, university educated kids, in their communities, to grow tomorrow's economy. But no, the kids emerge from uni, in debt, and get a job stacking shelves at Tests.
There seems to be no one with any ability to see the obvious, especially in the politico establishment and by now, so many are disillusioned in politics that no one cares any more.
We need some really bright intelligent thinkers in charge or it will only get worse.
And I haven't even mentioned "Greed" or the dodgy black economy where tax evasion is rife. No wonder it's cuts everywhere. No one is paying any taxes except the poor old bloke on PAYE. The bigger a business becomes, they can dictate to HMRC what rules they want.
The country is sick beyond belief and can't be far off the economy of Greece, and will undoubtedly get worse after the Brexit debacle.
Peter

[Ray White]

The reason the Germans are doing so well in vehicle production is, I think, two fold. Firstly, they were given a head start after WW2 with the Marshall Plan. Secondly, and more insidious, is that the Germans have not been subject to our suffocating class system.

Things may be changing now but these are the two main reasons for lack of investment - not just in my opinion but in every report commissioned into the decline of British manufacturing. Even today a desk job in a Bank or an Insurance Company is considered to be a "better" job than being an engineer in a factory. A solicitor is considered to have a "profession" but a mechanic or a plumber is thought of as "blue collar".

[Ashley]

I thought Leyland’s chief engineer was to blame for its demise. The company made excellent products for decades and until they decided to produce a horizontal engine for coaches or whatever. It was a total disaster and before the problems were resolved, a turbo was fitted that caused even more problems.

He left under a Cloud, got the chief engineer’s job at R-R. There he designed the carburettored Turbo BENTLEY which was also a desaster and nearly polished them off.

It may not seem like it at the moment with the media fighting for survival and winding us all up in the process, but living standards are rising quickly everywhere. Things are better than they ever been despite mainstream media turning everything into a panic. Even the sun coming out.

[alastairq]

I don't think the Germans are quite as all-conquering, with regards to the automotive industry, as is imagined..?

In fact, looking beneath the skin, or 'tween the lines, or whatever, I note VW have frequently had nightmares with regards to products, productivity, quality, etc.....as have BMW, and, notoriously, Mercedes Bends......?

[BMW had its bacon saved by a bubble car.....followed by the 02 series....VW struggled to cope with emissions requirements, not forgetting the recent debacle?]

BL did struggle with antiquated plant, and managed to produce some excellent products.

In France, what would have happened to Renault, or PSA, if the French govt hadn't financially intervened?

Then there's the FIAT problems? [Not to mention all the Italian marques that have fallen by the wayside, since WW2?]

I think, now, that Britain's heavy industry had to disappear.

Big stuff could be produced ever so much cheaper in countries whose labour costs were a lot less, for starters. Companies no longer have a 'national loyalty'.....even German companies. [VW's made cheaply in eastern european countries, for example?]

Red Robbo [as a focal point] was merely fighting a rearguard action. It would only be a matter of time before the rest of the UK's earning population desired a different product to what the local industry could provide.

Loyalty was no longer a commodity in the workplace....from either direction.

I think we will survive quite well after next March...eventually. For sure, many employers will have to re-align their business models....the ones who complain now are those that built their business entirely within the EU marketplace...If the goalposts move, then adaption will happen.

I think we as a country have more to worry about regarding our transatlantic trading relationships. we will find ourselves left 'on our own'...sink-or-swim, no doubt....But, we will 'swim'....just hopefully not having the boat anchor that is the current EU around our necks.

Maybe the EU will come back to us? [Albeit, in a very different form to what it is now?]...

Who knows?

Best laid plans, and all that? Cheer up, 'tis not the end of the world....FAcebook says so!

[Ray White]

I like your style, Alastair. Positive thinking is what we need.

As I see it there is going to be more incentive for big thinkers to get into politics when MPs have to do more than just rubber stamp all the junk that comes out of the E.U.