classic car forum header
Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
How To Register     Posting Photographs     Privacy Policy     F/book facebook.com/oldclassiccar

[split] Old Range Rovers and rusty Discos
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Classic & Vintage Cars - General Chat
Author Message
Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2748
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I firstly say welcome to our old car forum. I think you will find we are a friendly bunch who share a common interest.

This thread is something of an experiment as Range Rovers are rapidly acquiring classic car status. To me they are no different from what they always have been, ie; a brilliant off road vehicle with a touch of class. For years I had wanted a Range Rover. I was first smitten with the concept when I went to the 1970 Earls Court Motor Show with my Dad to witness the launch. He very nearly placed an order but I think the petrol consumption is what put him off.

The cars have come a long way since the days when they could be used as a versatile farm vehicle during the day and then hosed out for a trip to the theatre or restaurant in the evening!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Norseman



Joined: 09 Jan 2019
Posts: 70
Location: Essex UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
May I firstly say welcome to our old car forum. I think you will find we are a friendly bunch who share a common interest.
The cars have come a long way since the days when they could be used as a versatile farm vehicle during the day and then hosed out for a trip to the theatre or restaurant in the evening!


Thanks for the reply Ray. As you will see from my profile my 'classic' interests extend far beyond old LR products & most of my posts on that subject appear on 'Landyzone' under the same username. It's early days for me on this forum, so I'll be scanning all posts for classic interest. Spring is on it's way (hopefully) so I shall exhibit the RR at local as usual.
_________________
1987 classic Range Rover Vouge.

A great many models have served me well since the 'sixties, all of them old & some even older than me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1164
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Norseman, welcome. How I envy you your classic! Every time I see one on the road (pretty rarely, now) I wonder if I made the right decision in scrapping my LSE. Too late now, though, its in little bits!
My Disco 1 is just about ready, but I won't tax it now until Feb 1, and it can be my birthday present to myself, as I'll collect it on 3rd Feb.
But I will definitely miss people commenting on the RR; the Disco just does not have the same "presence" as a RR, does it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Norseman



Joined: 09 Jan 2019
Posts: 70
Location: Essex UK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emmerson wrote:

But I will definitely miss people commenting on the RR; the Disco just does not have the same "presence" as a RR, does it?


Thanks for the reply, not having a use for an extra 8 inches of rear leg-room the only thing I would like from the LSE is the 4.2 engine as the 3.5efi is a bit short on grunt in some circumstances, but at least it's (allegedly) immune to the dreaded liner slip.
You're right about 'presence' though, the Classic has it in spades unlike any of the company's later offerings Wink
_________________
1987 classic Range Rover Vouge.

A great many models have served me well since the 'sixties, all of them old & some even older than me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1164
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 4.2 had been "breathed on" fairly heavily in its last few years, and produced around 240 bhp instead of Rover's 200. I also had it chipped, which didn't give it any more power but smoothed out what was available so that it accelerated like a steam train, just one long effortless stream of power, until the car in front seemed to be reversing into me!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2748
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emmerson wrote:
My 4.2 had been "breathed on" fairly heavily in its last few years, and produced around 240 bhp instead of Rover's 200. I also had it chipped, which didn't give it any more power but smoothed out what was available so that it accelerated like a steam train, just one long effortless stream of power, until the car in front seemed to be reversing into me!


I think the engine in my P38 - a 4.6 litre V8 which runs on LPG and/or petrol is one of the best I have come across. It is smooth, quiet and uses virtually no oil. How much it's performance is enhanced by the car's complex electronics I don't know but I imagine it is a complete package.

In my opinion, the Achilles heel is the EAS. As it happens, the electronics are helpful in enabling diagnosis of problems which do occur largely because owners are reluctant to regard major mechanical components as being service items which require renewal at regular intervals. Such component are the compressor, valve block and ECU. Also, air bags and sensors have a limited life.

If I could make a point about servicing the EAS. It is not impossible to rebuild the valve block but with some 60 'o' rings in a kit, perhaps an exchange unit is the better bet.! The compressor, however, is an easy DIY job..

One tip to avoid an early problem with the valve block is to replace the filter. Also, regularly renew the silicate. This comes in the form of small white granules which tend to crumble to powder and unfortunately get drawn into the valve block. The silicate granules are contained within a pressurised vessel so be careful not to replace with more than you take out as the plastic screw top container, if overfilled, can burst.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Norseman



Joined: 09 Jan 2019
Posts: 70
Location: Essex UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="emmerson"]My 4.2 had been "breathed on" fairly heavily in its last few years, and produced around 240 bhp instead of Rover's 200 [quote]

I'm jealous, I believe it's perfectly possible to tune the 3.5efi to 200 brake (cam etc.) but having let such plans lie dormant for 10 years I'm now not in a position to justify the expense. Should have done it when I first bought the car, only 40k on the clock then.
_________________
1987 classic Range Rover Vouge.

A great many models have served me well since the 'sixties, all of them old & some even older than me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1164
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Norseman"][quote="emmerson"]My 4.2 had been "breathed on" fairly heavily in its last few years, and produced around 240 bhp instead of Rover's 200
Quote:


I'm jealous, I believe it's perfectly possible to tune the 3.5efi to 200 brake (cam etc.) but having let such plans lie dormant for 10 years I'm now not in a position to justify the expense. Should have done it when I first bought the car, only 40k on the clock then.


Yes,the rebuild was quite expensive, and had I known then just how rusty the car was, I probably wouldn't have done it. But i'm glad I did, as was fun while it lasted!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20076
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norseman wrote:
... but at least it's (allegedly) immune to the dreaded liner slip.
...


Are the V8s prone to this? I'm told that my Disco's 4.0 was converted to top-hat liners when it was reconditioned a few years ago.

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2748
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, they can do. It is just luck of the draw and depends on how worn the particular tooling was that machined your engine block. I have read that if the engine reaches 60,000 miles, the chances are that it will remain sound for the rest of it's life.

Please read: http://robisonservice.blogspot.com/2009/10/all-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-land.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Norseman



Joined: 09 Jan 2019
Posts: 70
Location: Essex UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Ray White"]Yes, they can do. It is just luck of the draw and depends on how worn the particular tooling was that machined your engine block. I have read that if the engine reaches 60,000 miles, the chances are that it will remain sound for the rest of it's life.

All bar the original 3.5. When the market wanted more power LR opted to increase the bore to 94mm which left less metal around the liner & subsequently the 3.9 & all later versions of the RV8 can suffer from the malady. Top hat liners are really a damage limitation exercise rather than a cure as that modification cannot prevent engine block cracking, just holds the liner in place if it does. Keeping the cooling system on top form & preventing over-heating are the best ways to guard against the problem. Some engines run their lifespan without liner trouble whereas others succumb, interestingly long-term use of LPG can be a factor as the combustion chamber temperatures are higher than running on petrol.
_________________
1987 classic Range Rover Vouge.

A great many models have served me well since the 'sixties, all of them old & some even older than me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2748
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Post 2000 blocks don't suffer from liner slip because there is a lip at the bottom to stop them if the thin aluminium should crack. The problems don't stop there, however. Because the liners are also very thin, it is not uncommon to find that a crack can occur in the liner as a result of stress from thread bolts. I suspect that over torquing the heads is the cause. Coolant gets into the cylinder from the smallest of cracks and then it is just a matter of time.... Crying or Very sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Norseman



Joined: 09 Jan 2019
Posts: 70
Location: Essex UK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
Post 2000 blocks don't suffer from liner slip because there is a lip at the bottom to stop them if the thin aluminium should crack. The problems don't stop there, however. Because the liners are also very thin, it is not uncommon to find that a crack can occur in the liner as a result of stress from thread bolts. I suspect that over torquing the heads is the cause. Coolant gets into the cylinder from the smallest of cracks and then it is just a matter of time.... Crying or Very sad


That's informative Ray, adding to my stock of knowledge of the RV8 & the reason why my last 3 RRC's have been 3.5's. What amazes me is that other users of the famous 'bent-eight' ie TVR have taken the capacity out to as much as 5 litres, so unless it's done by having one hell of a long stroke (which is not conducive with a fast pick-up & high revs) how do they get away it?
_________________
1987 classic Range Rover Vouge.

A great many models have served me well since the 'sixties, all of them old & some even older than me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2748
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since my last post I have read comments made by an expert that the problem of slipping liners only happened when Land Rover went to 3.9 litres. The problems with this engine were so widespread that apparently they produced completely new castings for the 4.0 litre onwards which employed a bottom lip so this would mean that there is no problem with slipping in the 4.6 litre.

This has thrown me somewhat because I am sure I have heard mechanics say they can slip. I especially remember a friend of mine who owns a garage saying what you said about the LPG conversion and hot running. On his advise I had the engine tuned to best operate with LPG and fitted silver electrode plugs.

I also agree with you about a long stroke engine being unsuitable for a sports car. The maximum bore was reached with the 3.9 litre engine. Anything larger could only be achieved by extending the stroke. What might be ideal for the Range Rover was not necessarily best for a different type of driving.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Norseman



Joined: 09 Jan 2019
Posts: 70
Location: Essex UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
Since my last post I have read comments made by an expert that the problem of slipping liners only happened when Land Rover went to 3.9 litres. The problems with this engine were so widespread that apparently they produced completely new castings for the 4.0 litre onwards which employed a bottom lip so this would mean that there is no problem with slipping in the 4.6 litre.


I have to disagree Ray, I've been a contributor to Landyzone (forum) for many years & 4.6's do apparently slip liners. When my 3.9 did just this in 2002 I made extensive enquiries & at that time there were main dealers with P38's lined up awaiting attention for what was THEN considered to be head gasket problems as the cracked block/liner problem was not common knowledge. Many of these engines were in trouble with mileages as low as 20k from new & still under warranty.
_________________
1987 classic Range Rover Vouge.

A great many models have served me well since the 'sixties, all of them old & some even older than me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Classic & Vintage Cars - General Chat All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 3 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum T&C


php BB powered © php BB Grp.