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DVLA on the prowl
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alanb



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 342
Location: Berkshire.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You only have to look through the ebay adds to find the reason, cars advertised as 1930s Austin/Morris/Ford hot rod jag rear suspension, viva front suspension, rover V8, bespoke tubular chassis, original number, tax & mot exempt.
Any car that has in the last 30 years been substantially modified under the DVLA guidelines i.e. Modified chassis or modified monocoque body shell will need to be registered as a Q plate.
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old tourer


Morris 8 two seater
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3380
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There were a couple of clubs who pushed things too far; essentially supporting building a car with mainly modern components around an old engine & chassis number, and then trying to pass the car off as something much older, I don't think anyone has a problem with the DVLA weeding these sort of vehicles out.

Unfortunately I suspect this has brought unnecessary attention to cars that were built as Specials in their day but would not adhere to current VOSA guidelines.

Dave
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Vulgalour



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 131
Location: Middlesbrough and Kent

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I understand it, if you can prove the vehicle was built before a certain date to the rules at that time, the vehicle is grandfathered in. Should the DVLA make a mistake and incorrectly withdraw the V5, it can and should be challenged.

I would recommend speaking not to the DVLA, but to an organisation like the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs for advice: https://fbhvc.co.uk/ as they've been quite supportive of owners and builders of vehicles of this type. They should be able to work out why the DVLA's withdrawal of the V5 is, or is not, correct, and how to proceed.

If the car is a new build, even if done in the same way as a car build 30+ years ago, that would fall under the new legislation. That doesn't seem to be the case here, this seems to be an historically build/modified vehicle that has been erroneously identified as a new built.
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alanb



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 342
Location: Berkshire.

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How dows this get away with being mot & tax exempt, nothing's original and built in 2013?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RED-1960-MORRIS-V8-4-3-AUTO-HOTROD-CUSTOM-CLASSIC-SHOW-CAR-WINNER-SWAP/133036036250?hash=item1ef990d09a:g:24QAAOSwSyRcxdeY
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old tourer


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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1101
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect DVLA and DVSA both watch ebay, amongst others.
But, in the end, every year a declaration is made, if taxing [VED] the vehicle.

Folk take risks, on the basis they will be too low profile to actually be caught.
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Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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consul 57



Joined: 09 Nov 2017
Posts: 205
Location: somerset

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alanb wrote:
How dows this get away with being mot & tax exempt, nothing's original and built in 2013?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RED-1960-MORRIS-V8-4-3-AUTO-HOTROD-CUSTOM-CLASSIC-SHOW-CAR-WINNER-SWAP/133036036250?hash=item1ef990d09a:g:24QAAOSwSyRcxdeY

if built in the last 30 years then it needs an mot for sure.
many of these so called resto mods will need an mot.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3380
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am split on this topic... in the same way that folk built specials many years ago, I don't see why that shouldn't continue with a degree of control. What I don't want to see is a car built with largely modern bits with new albeit 'old looking' bodywork and it passed off as something it's not.

Dave
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2787
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukdave2002 wrote:
I am split on this topic... in the same way that folk built specials many years ago, I don't see why that shouldn't continue with a degree of control. What I don't want to see is a car built with largely modern bits with new albeit 'old looking' bodywork and it passed off as something it's not.

Dave


I agree that being "passed off as something it's not" is reprehensible. As I have mentioned before, I am quite enthusiastic about certain replicas. What I dislike is the notion that such cars be masquerading as the real thing.

Most of us could never afford a genuine Le Mans racing car for example - so a replica (and the more like the real thing the better) is an affordable option. The only area where I feel uncomfortable is when a quite rare and restorable saloon is trashed to enable the build of a more sporting model with which it shares mechanical components.

Unfortunately the world is as it is - and often not as we would like it - so money talks.
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alanb



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 342
Location: Berkshire.

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just find it annoying that people with genuine tax exempt vehicles are vetted and checked while these false vehicles seem to flaunt their exempt status in their advertisements.
The dvla guidelines are quite clear and there are links to experts who can assist if unsure, the main items being chassis/ monocoque body cannot be substantially altered nor can the suspension or axles. 8 points are required to maintain exemption status
5 points for unaltered chassis/monocoque body
2 points for original front axle & suspension
2 points for rear axle & suspension
2 points for original engine & transmission
The body on a separate chassis vehicle is largely irrelevant.
Rant over, happy motoring in whatever you have.
Alan
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old tourer


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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1101
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect a huge number of potential buyers may not have anything like enough knowledge?
The vendors may be banking on this, in the hope someone will part with their cash, not knowing anything like enough about the issues, thereby passing onto someone else, all the problems the vendor see's looming?
We are all guilty of buying on the spur of the moment...[impulse buying?],but most on here at least do so with their eyes wide open, fully aware of the potential for issues, and the willingness to overcome them?

As an example, I know of a few more specialised vehicles [in their original intended purpose] that have been bought by a buyer who then discovers they cannot drive them because they don't actually fit. Thus the car ends up back on the market very quickly.

I myself are somewhat guilty of having a brain thinking 'back then', and not 'in-the-present'...hence, whilst I'd love to run a Sprite/Midget [not too fussy, but prefer the Sprite]...as I used to do when I was young....until a chum let me try & sit in his...where I found I no longer could even get behind the wheel [now I know why I fitted a smaller one to my original car?]...

A case of 'try-before -you-buy?'

Yup, I reckon vendors are banking on prospects no understanding the DVLA and DVSA situation....[relying perhaps on urban myth?]...in order to pass on a vehicle they themselves know will become a liability.

If they get away with it for long enough, it becomes a fact, rather than urban myth...like driving around without mudguards? [Simply because, there is very little likelihood of getting stopped..therefore, to others, it becomes 'permissible'...until someone gets caught, then the authorities are the world's worst, etc?]

Perhaps DVLA might start applying these rules in retrospect? Thus, catching up with current owners, rather than future ones?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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V8 Nutter



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 499

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether it's true or not I don't know, but I have been told driving without mudguards falls under the construction and use regulations. Which involves so much paper work the police tend to look the other way. It's not only the Hot Rodders who flaunt that regulation. The other day I saw an Austin Seven that looked as though it had come straight off Brooklands in the thirties. No mudguards and I don't think it had number plates.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1101
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, contravening C&U regs involves no more paperwork than bald tyres....the trick is, nobody has been out there on patrol, so these things don't get discovered.
Well, things round where I live are changing...more Officers out & about, on patrol, [not just 'attending']...plus, regular DVSA roadside checks being set up...not to catch the occasional hot rodder, but the more modern vehicles slipping through the net...

If mudguards are not present, the driver may well get a 'warning to fit'...but if 'strop' enters the fray, then perhaps a prohibition on movement until fitted could be the inconvenient outcome?
Years ago, one way to appear to have no mudguards for a rod, was to fit guards made out of clear perspex or acrylic, fitted very close to the tyre.
Of course, if the weather turns wet & nasty, and spray or mud gets thrown up, a mobile phone call to the 111 number with reg number, time & place, will inevitably get a visit...[our Police place a deal of store on this new form of intelligence gathering]...

Or would that be consdered to be 'spoiling spmeone's fun?'
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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View user's profile Send private message
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