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Drive It Day plans 2019?
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1346
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
Quote:
What really makes the roads unsafe these days is traffic policing by speed camera enforcement which does nothing to catch or deter drunks, idiots, road rage, insecure loads, faulty lights...


But, cameras do free up traffic officers to pursue those other offences.


If that's the case then where are all these traffic officers persuing other offences? Not round these parts, that's for sure. No, what's really happened is that cameras have replaced traffic officers as they, along with police officers in general, have been reduced in number by the Tories so they can give tax cuts to themselves and the other millionaires. Welcome to banana republic Britain, government by the rich for the rich Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2923
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I would prefer to come here to escape from all the political muck slinging.... Wink
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1166
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If that's the case then where are all these traffic officers pursuing other offences?


Round here, money has been 'diverted' to provide a lot more officers, and the trafpol are quite active in pursuing folk , especially uninsured folk. They have a Twitter feed which is quite pleasing to read, in a spare moment.
The lack of boots on the ground is down to our own reluctance to spend more in various taxes to fund what we want.

Technology is used for enforcement all the time now. regardless of whether its automated, or has the human touch.

CAmeras free up officers to pursue other law-breaking.

What I cannot get my head around, Is the fact folks actually complain that they cannot break the law and get away with it?
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Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 1757
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
Personally I would prefer to come here to escape from all the political muck slinging.... Wink


Indeed. If politics is to be discussed at all, perhaps Rick could add a forum section like the Pistonheads "News Politics and Economics", so that those wanting an argument know where to go to get one, and those wishing to avoid the topics can more easily do so.
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47Jag



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 1461
Location: Bothwell, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MIKE,

Iíll second that.

Art
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6044
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it's better not to know what other's politics are.

Peter Rolling Eyes
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Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20426
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For very good reasons, politics is generally a no-no in these parts. Having a politics section would just encourage virtual soapbox warriors (as has been the case in the past on a couple of occasions) to rant and generally be obnoxious, so by and large things here are apolitical and it seems to work ok most of the time.

RJ (chief - sole - moderator and tea boy)
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1346
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a little unrealistic to think that we can avoid all mention of politics on this forum, given how much our hobby can potentially be affected by it. Maybe if we were discussing baking or sewing or railway modelling we could ignore politics altogether, but as we all want to use the roads in some way I'm afraid it's always going to come up from time to time.

To go back to speed limits, it's all fine and dandy to say that it isn't necessarily safe to travel at the limit, and that they aren't a target; I think that all the regular users of this forum know that. However, we must be aware that that's not the way an awful lot of today's road users think. Looking back to when I learnt to drive at 17 - passed first time, February 2001 - there was an implication even then (that seems to have become stronger as time has gone on) that if you stuck to the speed limit you would be basically OK on the road. It wasn't explicitly stated anywhere, but it was very easy to get that idea fixed into your head. At the time there was plenty of NSL road and practical experience soon unstuck it; but it seems to me that the nanny state (politics again!) is actively running with that idea, progressively lowering speed limits to a point where, in theory at least, it will "always" be safe to drive at that speed, even though most of the time it will be safe to drive at a speed well in excess of the posted limit provided there's no Talivan lurking. Essentially today's drivers are being deskilled, and are losing - or are going to lose - the ability to judge what is a safe speed to travel at, and that's a dangerous road to be going down IMO.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1166
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Essentially today's drivers are being deskilled, and are losing - or are going to lose - the ability to judge what is a safe speed to travel at, and that's a dangerous road to be going down IMO.


Not just today's drivers, but yesterday's drivers as well.

We all can think of times when the prevailing conditions on a road, allowed us to 'think' that a speed higher than the limit would be perfectly 'safe'....and indeed, it may well prove to be...but that is why we have a limit.....
when I posted the reminder that a limit is not a target, the point I was emphasising was, a limit has nothing to do with the 'safest' maximum speed to be travelling at, in that environment, in the prevailing conditions.

I spotted in Worcestershire some years ago, a lot of the routes away from the trunk roads, were signed with advisory speed limits. I think advisory speed signage is a good thing...it allows inexperienced [through time or desire] drivers to have some idea of what would be the safest maximum speed at that situation.

We have one or two such advisory limits round here....they're not mandatory, by any means..but, have a crash-'n'-burn , where it can be shown one was over the advisory limit, and a potential for a dangerous driving charge arises..[on the basis of, you were warned]...which has arisen on more than one occasion up here.

I disagree in part with the de-skilling of drivers...new drivers are a lot more 'skilled' than their equivalents of 10, 20 or 30 years ago or more.

However, as drivers, we become used to being looked after in our cars, by the new technologies that arrive.

We are insulated by our new cars, from the outside world.

Which for me is a shame...I hate being in new cars, I hate being on new buses, and I hate driving new lorries...[I have surrendered my vocational licence categories when my first annual medical came due....not that I would have failed it..on the contrary..but by surrendering those categories ...C, C+E, D, D+E.....I ensured I wouldn't be tempted back into the working world.].....
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1346
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:


I spotted in Worcestershire some years ago, a lot of the routes away from the trunk roads, were signed with advisory speed limits. I think advisory speed signage is a good thing...it allows inexperienced [through time or desire] drivers to have some idea of what would be the safest maximum speed at that situation.

We have one or two such advisory limits round here....they're not mandatory, by any means..but, have a crash-'n'-burn , where it can be shown one was over the advisory limit, and a potential for a dangerous driving charge arises..[on the basis of, you were warned]...which has arisen on more than one occasion up here.



I'm generally in favour of advisory speed signage, but it has to be done well and a lot of it isn't. A couple of years ago now Monmouthshire CC went mad on putting up advisory speed signage warning of the bends along the Usk to Chepstow road, the only problem was that they were all 40mph - job lot maybe. Many of the bends so signed didn't need any signage at all IMO, and some that really did need them (again IMO) had none, but the real problem was that in several places the advisory 40mph was way, way too fast for the bend. No problem for those of us who knew the road before the silly signs went up, but positively dangerous to people travelling that way for the first time - the very people that signs are really aimed at. I'm pretty sure I wrote to them about it when the signs first appeared but nothing was done for a long time.

I went that way this last weekend, and noticed that some of the signs before the worst bends had been "patched" and now read 30mph, but in at least two places so signed the bends are so severe that 30mph is still far too fast - at anything over 20mph a brown trouser moment if nothing worse is pretty much guaranteed, even in the dry. I get the impression that such signage is specified by a desk jockey with an OS map rather than - as it should be done - by an experienced highway engineer who actually knows the road and its individual hazards.
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