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basket case.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2787
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:25 am    Post subject: basket case. Reply with quote

Has anyone here ever bought a basket case for restoration?

I have been tempted recently by a completely dismantled 1947 MG TC. The seller has owned the car since the 1960s and totally dismantled it many years ago with a view to a ground up rebuild which was never completed. To be fair, the chassis had been restored and there were quite a few "new" parts including a professionally built Ash frame, wheels, some panels and ready to fit leather interior... also included were restored instruments, a rebuilt gearbox and quite a few re chromed parts.

I reluctantly passed on the deal because without axles and wheels attached collection would have been difficult. It was also 180 miles away.

With an asking price of 15,000 (even if the vehicle is complete as described) I can't help wondering if I would be better off paying more for a car which I could improve rather than rebuild.

After all, I only have one lifetime.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1101
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Dellow in bits was recently on the market for more than that! Needless to say, the owner felt it was worth more than the general offers[even if reasonable] made by aficionados of the marque..and was quite abrupt with their responses.

Really, a 'take it or leave it' situation?

Moving the parts really isn't a big deal...even if a lot of hefting and carrying might be required.

With the amounts of money involved, might be worth buying a [flatbed?] trailer that would fit under cover, and erect the parts on it? [It could then be moved about?]

The wheels and axles ought not be a real issue....and at least with such rebuilding as has already been done, and even if wheels & axles were attached, movement might still be difficult due to their state?

As it sits, even a fabricated dolly might prove useful?

Anyway, the advantage is..it really isn't a basket case as such..more a 'kit if parts [scratch-aid, in modelling circles?].....if it appeals, go for it.....spending more on a so-called 'complete' car may prove more heart breaking in the end...as it would still need taking apart fro inspection & renovation? At east with this car, everything is accessible for a look-see? Worst part of any re-build has to be, rectifying decades of bodges and other folks' ideas of what 'renovated' means?
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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1426
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over the years I have bought several 'basket cases', and I would advise caution, especially if you are not particularly familiar with the model.

From my experience, there are a number of potential problems:

Are all the parts there? Even if it was a complete car to start with, bits have a tendency to disappear over time.

It can be a real headache trying to re-assemble from a jumble of unlabelled parts.

Has any restoration work been done to a satisfactory standard?

Even if the work has been done to a good stndard, has it deteriorated over the years?

Why did the restoration stall? There can be a number of good reasons, including hitting an insurmountable problem!

... and a basket case needs to be cheap! The vendor usually expects to recoup all his expenses (and more) when in reality the price needs to reflect the expenses still needed, which very often puts the price at a level where the vendor would have been better off not starting the restoration!
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in the garage: 1931 Austin 7, 1953 Lancia Appia
recently departed: 1967 Singer Chamois, 1914 Saxon, 1930 Morris Cowley, 1936 BSA Scout, 1958 Lancia Appia coupe, 1922 Star 11.9 ... the list goes on!
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1040
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two years I bought a basket case. A chassis, body, wings, interior, engine and gearbox. The previous owner had it imported from the UK back in 1966 and after just a short drive he decided he wanted to restore/repaint the car. So he disassembled it. Put all the parts in wooden boxes and then, as it goes, left the car for 50 years. It has been stored in a shed next to his family's engineering shop. The newspapers where the precious parts were wrapped in (glass, chrome) all dated from 1966.
I put most of the parts out of the boxes to the floor. Happy to say I could not find anything missing apart from maybe fasteners (there are jars of bolts and nuts) so we made a deal. Very cheap, the shed had to be taken down for new housing plans and he did not have many enquiries about the car.
At my place once again I took out all parts and wrote them down. Then it got packed again and put in my shed where all is now. Under cover for a few more years when I hope I have more spare time, bring it over to my place and start assembling!








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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2787
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you can see why I thought this would be a good project. The car is understood to be complete but even if there are a few bits missing, just about everything is available for the MG TC. Although the parts are not labelled, they are organised into logical groups.

I could have hired a recovery vehicle but I don't think I have the strength to move the chassis, engine or the body on my own - and I don't know anyone who I could ask to come with me. It would probably involve an overnight stay as the car is so far away. The cost then also becomes a factor.

Perhaps I lack imagination (or just too hen pecked) but collection seems to loom as a big problem for me.

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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1040
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A proper basket case indeed! A bit expensive, according to Hagerty you should be able to find a daily driver for that money. My Roadster was 15% of your asking price.


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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1426
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

badhuis wrote:
A proper basket case indeed! A bit expensive ...


I agree; no matter what work has already been done, that needs to be no more than half the asking price in my opinion. Nevertheless, don't let the logistics put you off; if you do decide to go for it, Ray, I'll be happy to help.
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in the garage: 1931 Austin 7, 1953 Lancia Appia
recently departed: 1967 Singer Chamois, 1914 Saxon, 1930 Morris Cowley, 1936 BSA Scout, 1958 Lancia Appia coupe, 1922 Star 11.9 ... the list goes on!
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 2474
Location: Somerset

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 1946 ERF lorry is a basket case, completely stripped down, very little remains of the cab so I will fabricate a new one, engine in pieces, wooden body only remnants.

Locally registered, rarity, and a tipper like my father drove all his working life, I barely needed a second thought on buying it!!
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2787
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeC wrote:
badhuis wrote:
A proper basket case indeed! A bit expensive ...


I agree; no matter what work has already been done, that needs to be no more than half the asking price in my opinion. Nevertheless, don't let the logistics put you off; if you do decide to go for it, Ray, I'll be happy to help.


Many thanks Mike. That is a most generous offer.

How one goes about persuading a seller to drop the price by that much I don't know but I think the silly prices midgets have been going for lately must have played a part.
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Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20263
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
mikeC wrote:
badhuis wrote:
A proper basket case indeed! A bit expensive ...


I agree; no matter what work has already been done, that needs to be no more than half the asking price in my opinion. Nevertheless, don't let the logistics put you off; if you do decide to go for it, Ray, I'll be happy to help.


Many thanks Mike. That is a most generous offer.

How one goes about persuading a seller to drop the price by that much I don't know but I think the silly prices midgets have been going for lately must have played a part.


More viable? albeit with a higher initial asking price:

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1115618

RJ
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Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2787
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guy has a choice of three T types and a Healey; none of which look like they ever see tarmac!

The trouble is that by the time I have torn down the more expensive car it will resemble a basket case anyway.

The basket case, however, needs the skilful use of an English wheel to correctly profile the door panels prior to shaping and fitting. The price needs to reflect this kind of specialism. It might do so yet. Wink
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