Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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Roger-hatchy
Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 2135 Location: Tiptree, Essex
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:34 pm Post subject: VENEER TO METAL |
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Hi
I am trying to wood veneer my dashboard on the DLM
I have a few packs of veneers, white oak, I think,
They were being thrown out a few years ago at the time I was doing a lot of woodworking hobby, so I saved them
I have about 10 @ 6" x 4' sheets.
And about the same of what looks like mahogany
The dash panel is a sheet of aluminium just short of 6 inch deep and just over 35 inches long
Is evostick contact adhesive the best thing to use.
I presume it would have to be a contact adhesive, or is there a better way.
Thanks Roger
BTW. have posted my effort so far on my rebuild thread.
http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=54237#54237 |
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Jim.Walker
Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 1229 Location: Chesterfield
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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I cannot suggest an answer to your question, but possibly a caution.
I fixed veneer to a plywood dash on an open car many years ago using Evostick because I thought it might be more durable if I was caught with the hood down. It lasted a few years before the edges started to lift. Whether any other adhesive would have been better I have no way of knowing.
Mind you,that was done 25 years ago and maybe contact adhesives have evolved since then.
Jim. _________________ Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then! |
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victor 101
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Posts: 446 Location: East Yorkshire
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Are you putting the veneer straight onto metal, is so, maybe it needs a thin bit of ply between, I guess the the change in temperature causes the dash to expand and shrink very slightly. Might need to fit the whole lot with some nice chrome screws and countersunk washers as RR do. |
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Roger-hatchy
Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 2135 Location: Tiptree, Essex
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Jim.Walker wrote: |
Mind you,that was done 25 years ago and maybe contact adhesives have evolved since then.
Jim. |
Not saying I keep thing a long time
That might be the problem, not sure how old the tin of evostick is
I'm not tight just don't like wasting things, my garage used to be like that.
Victor 101
A thin sheet of ply and then bolted on might be the answer.
The Aluminium is only about 5mm thick, I have some 5mm marine ply from my model boat building.
Could then fix the veneer with waterproof, cascamite, wood glue and then varnish the same way I do my boats,
A photo of the Dash
The 4 small guages to the right are 2"
The speedo is just off centre, to it's left the hole for the Ignition / light switch and to the left of that is the indicator switch.
Bottom right is the cable feed for the horn button, to it's left is the rocker change over switch for the dip/main.
The larger hole with two small bolt holes below the four guages is the steering column top bearing and clamp.
You can just make out a coupls of small holes for the grab handle on the left.
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4104 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Some TVR's have wood veneer on a metal dash, might be worth searching thier forums.
Dave |
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Roger-hatchy
Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 2135 Location: Tiptree, Essex
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Dave
will do that |
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Phil - Nottingham
Joined: 01 Jan 2008 Posts: 1252 Location: Nottingham
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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P4's have there dash endcaps veneered over aluminium which stays on as well as the rest of the wood backed dash some are 60 years old now.
Perhaps expoxy resin (Araldite) will hold permanently _________________ Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2 |
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Roger-hatchy
Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 2135 Location: Tiptree, Essex
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Found a piece of 1.5mm marine ply witha good grain.
And what I thought was another 1.5mm with nice dark grain.
The dark piece is not play but 1.5mm veneer,
I put a mike over the cut off from the piece on the dash, it's 0.32mm, this could be the problem, too thin for the job
I'll have a better look at them in the daylight to decide which to use.
The following picture shows a couple of the cracks
This one shows the cracks between the dial holes
And this shows the ?Mahogany?? vaneer with the ply sheet below it.
Looking at the present effort I'll persavere.
Roger |
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Roger-hatchy
Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 2135 Location: Tiptree, Essex
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Sorry if I keep repeating on this thread but
I will keep trying till it's correct.
I have a feeling it was my problem of not being patient and waiting for the thinned down varnish to dry in it's own time.
I took it out of the garage and into a centrally heated environment, I should have known better, having played at cabinet maker and wood turner as a hobby.
Central heating is a wood/cabinet workers nightmare.
The first one I did I did indoors, and took out to the garage with, hindsight, obvious results.
Second attempt the other way round with the opposite results.
Also the veneer I had used is only 0.32mm, paper thin,
I Also notice the thinned varnish had penetrated through and softened the adhesive,
that would have been OK if I had not tried to rush things and let it dry in it's own time
Got another six or seven sheets of the first veneer left, also a pack of mahogany veneer, about 10 sheets.
And that 1.5mm marine ply, and that 1.5mm veneer, and the weather has improved, and the
This time I'll fix a piece of the 1.5mm ply to the metal, there are some nice wood grain sections.
If it looks good after a coat of varnish, left to dry in it's own time this time, all well and good, if not at least I have the mahogany veneer to apply to the ply.
I'll also leave the cutting out till after I have almost got the finish I want, a couple of coats around the end grain should seal the holes.
Another week behind. then I think only finished the garage and got the car under cover last October. |
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StoneRoad
Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 74 Location: Haltwhistle.
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:08 am Post subject: veneer |
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I have a feeling that the dark wood is actually sapele. _________________ Saluton. mi estas fervojistino, kaj vi?
visit http://www.ipernity.com/doc/312383/album
to see what has been done! Perhaps we can do something for you? |
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Roger-hatchy
Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 2135 Location: Tiptree, Essex
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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StoneRoad
You might be right, had it for a good few years, was my father before, and he passed away in 73.
I had had another think about the dash as it is at the moment
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The cracks are only visible if you know were to look, and the cracks between the gauges? by the time the gauges are fitted about 1/8" will be showing.
So I am going to carry on and varnish with a rubdown almost to bare wood between coats, with this cold weather 6hr drying is taking about 24
I have a feeling as the varnish is about the same colour as the light wood I might be able to build up the cracks to level with the surface.
I'll try that first, if it's still bad I can re-do it again.
Roger |
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StoneRoad
Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 74 Location: Haltwhistle.
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: cracks? |
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Hi Roger,
I have been looking more closely at the images, the cracks seem to be following the general lay of the grain, which also has markedly lighter/darker areas in the pattern. These cracks may well be 'shakes' and some of them may well vary in width with the relative humidity! So if you are intent on filling them you need to pick a flexible filler which matches colour(s) - not easy! but there are several tricks available if you need them. Assuming that your varnish is not acting as a filler!
I have never had do a large area of veneering, just minor repairs, but I do recall that getting the air out, and the veneer flat and even, required a lot of practice and correctly applied pressure (read weight!)
Stoneroad _________________ Saluton. mi estas fervojistino, kaj vi?
visit http://www.ipernity.com/doc/312383/album
to see what has been done! Perhaps we can do something for you? |
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Roger-hatchy
Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 2135 Location: Tiptree, Essex
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Stoneguard
This is the first time I have veneered a metal panel, and in a cold and humid environment, 5c had been the warmest so far and 80-90% humidity.
Also I should have left it in the one environment to fix, paint and dry, and not try to rush the job.
Most times I have done my veneering at a warmer time of year, and indoors as well.
As to the cracks, as you say they follow the grain.
So far the varnish looks like it is doing the job, I have been using an artists fine brush and layering / filling the cracks.
With the cold weather it takes a bit longer to dry before I can rub down level.
I now have about 1 to 2 inches, in small patches, left to fill.
I now have to hold it up to the light to see any indentations.
One more rub down should see it all level and ready to start the finnish.
Roger |
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