classic car forum header
Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Register     Posting Photographs     Privacy     F/book OCC Facebook     OCC on Patreon

Repeated PerTronix Ignition Unit failure
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Electrical Restoration
Author Message
Ashley



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 1426
Location: Near Stroud, Glos

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:23 pm    Post subject: Repeated PerTronix Ignition Unit failure Reply with quote

A few years ago when I need new points at £60 for my MKVI Bentley, I decided instead to convert to electronic ignition. I bought what I now know is a PerTronix unit Frank at Classicheads.com I paid about £140 and a few years and a few thousand miles later the unit failed. It didn't go instantly but it did start to hesitate periodically on a very hot day until it eventually stopped.

Both Frank and Pertronix refused any guarantee claim because a few years had passed (only 4000 miles) since purchase. Both were generally unhelpful and slow to respond. They also insisted I use their coil rather than the Lucas Morris minor type suitable for my car, which is of higher resistance so draws less current and should make for greater reliability.

I'd bought a spare a year or so after the original and was able to fit it on the side of the road when failure occurred. This has now failed after another couple of thousand miles. We were stuck in the appalling traffic jam that was Prescott's La Vie en Bleu yesterday, the car got extremely hot and an hour was added to the total of two hours we spent queuing while I reverted to points style ignition.

I'd gone to see friends www.alpineeagle.co.uk who'd entered a magnificent Type 46 Bugatti they've restored in the Most Elegant category (they won!). They'd also used PerTronix once, they'd fitted it to a customer's MKVI and had it break down three times with the unfortunate customer miles from his home and very angry indeed! Long journeys and heat build up seem to be the problem.

PerTronix is a good idea and elegant because everything is hidden inside the distributor, but I've spent nearly £300 on them to do about 7000 miles when £60 for two sets of points would have lasted about 50,000 miles, so you can imagine that I'm very angry and frustrated and feel I should warn others of my experience.



Ashley


Last edited by Ashley on Mon May 31, 2010 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1252
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what you feel like - I spent the same money and had both my Lumenition setups fail (and had to be recovered home both times) on my P5B's

I have gone back to standard points as its more cost effective and will generally keep you running even though thry may require more atterntion but only every 3000 miles or so which in the scheme of things is not really too onerous
_________________
Rover P2
Rover P4
Rover P5 & P5B
Land Rover S2 & S3
Morris Mini Traveller Mk2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1585
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure which side of the fence I fall on really, because I have one car on Lumenition - for ten years - and it has never let me down. The only problem with it is when it is hot and I turn the ignition switch on and if the piston is at exactly the right point the car can fire up on its own without any need to press the starter button. One car gets now frankly run into the ground and it is three years - and 8,000 miles - since the points were gapped but she kept on running despite the abuse. My problem with standard ignition systems has always been the rotor arm but thanks to this site I hope that this problem is now well and truly cured. Now I've no real experience of Pertronix so I'm interested to learn. But, a bit of googling came up with this informative article:-

http://www.calverst.com/articles/EL-Ignition-Pertronix_Ignitor_issues.htm

Hope that might help someone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ashley,

Clearly the thing has not been designed fit for purpose. It might be a good idea to autopsy the failed units. You could then go back to the manufacturers with evidence of their design failings. I suggest this believing that you are no stranger to electronics.

Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ashley



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 1426
Location: Near Stroud, Glos

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

www.alpineeagle.co.uk had three fail in exactly the same circumstances and each time they replaced the 3 Ohm coil and the ignitor unit. I'm sure it's not related to poor earthing, I'm fairly sure they are failing because they get too hot.

My first one began to fail at 30 degrees on a hill on a French motorway and this one failed in a very long traffic jam when the water temperature was 95 instead of the normal 75 degrees.

I'd advise against using them unless you have a spare, in which case they don't make economic sense unless you wear points out very often.

Ash
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting! We run classic vehicles, but we are not happy with the way they were when produced and add electronic ignition, electric fans, electric petrol pumps and etc. etc..

I too have had Lumenition failure on a (then) modern "Landcrab" back in the 1980s. That car went back to contact breaker ignition and operated as a taxi without trouble for years after. The Lumenition unit went back to the manufacturer never to be heard of again. Another incident with an electronic system (cannot remember the make) fitted to a friends Triumph Vitesse car which failed while we were touring in company. That could have spoilt our holiday, but we found a local garage which had points, condenser etc. still on the shelves, so our holiday continued. That was back in the early 1990's and the car still runs on the conventional points.

Is there a moral here? Why go for a sophisticated system on an older car for which parts are not readily available in preference to a system which can be readily tested out and usually cured at the roadside with a bit of spare wire?

In 54 years and hundreds of thousands of miles of motoring I have only had conventional ignition failure twice. One was the coil (which most "bolt on" systems need anyway) and the other was a condenser. The coil was replaced with one from a scrap yard adjacent to where I broke down, but I did have to go shopping for the condenser.
_________________
Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nic Jarman



Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 1031
Location: Stoke by Clare, Suffolk

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a listen to a friends 1500 spitfire engine and I was peeved to find that it sounded wonderfull. He explained that he had tried a 123 distibutor and did not like it at all then he tried a h - h ignition sulutions dizzy. His engine was smoothly ticking over at 400 rpm!!!!
http://www.h-h-ignitionsolutions.co.uk/index.htm
_________________
1936 Morris 8 Series 1
1973 MGB roadster
1977 MG Midget 1500
Dax Rush
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess like many things in life there are pros and cons; you can't argue with the fact that any electronic ignition from simple transistor assist types will increase the speed of the coil field collapse which brings a number of benefits.

I have fitted a Petronix ignition on my Stag, being a V8 there is not a great deal of dwell time, closing the points gap up helps but you can then suffer from points bounce at higher revs, the optical and hall effect points replacement can help address this challenge.

The down side is of course the fact you have introduced additional components that can fail, and when they do fail generally can not be fixed. If you are installing an after market system we need to consider that we are introducing a non standard component in to an environment where the electronic ignition manufacturers will have not tested for every possible model of vehicle and environment (not that they will make a big point of telling you this!, and they should).

There are 3 things that will kill electronic components; humidity, high temperature and supply voltage spikes, humidity will only affect non sealed components and most aftermarket systems i have seen are sealed, the exception being the kit Maplin sell (which I still think is a good product and if it fails its a flick of a switch to co back to conventional), temperature; down to where the device is installed or if it is a particularly "hot running" engine probably not a good idea (yes I know I have one on the stag !), voltage spike's; these may be the real killer of the electronics, there are always present in vehicle electrics , to protect against this on the Stag I have fitted a "snubber" circuit to the petronix electrical supply, its a simple contact suppressor (cost about £3) and it simply removes the worst electrical "noise" giving a extra degree of protection to the electronic ignition.

The final thing that annoys me about many of the after market electronic ignition suppliers; is that they will try and sell you their own "40,000 volt coil" giving the impression that the spark will be better, in any ignition systems the voltage in the coil rises until it finds a path to earth (hopefully by sparking at the plug !) so if the plug gap is increased the voltage will be higher, the firing voltage is not regulated by the coil. The only aftermarket system that do need a coil change are capacitive discharge, as its a different technology.


Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Nic Jarman



Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 1031
Location: Stoke by Clare, Suffolk

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have fitted an H H Ignition Solutions dizzy and coil to the Midget and what a difference. The engine is running so much smoother I noticed some rattles and vibes that I had to cure now. Also the vibe from the dash that tells me that I am doing 30mph has gone. Guess we can't win them all but idling at 600 rpm makes me Very Happy .
Maybe the carbs will stay in tune now.
_________________
1936 Morris 8 Series 1
1973 MGB roadster
1977 MG Midget 1500
Dax Rush
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if this outfit can help?
I recently bought an electronic unit to replace my distributor points. It was less than £25 (plus postage) and can be fitted in almost seconds. At the moment I have only done just over 1000miles with it, but it is operating perfectly.
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Simonbbc-Ignition-Solutions/_i.html?_fsub=1131045010
Jim.
_________________
Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nic Jarman



Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 1031
Location: Stoke by Clare, Suffolk

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went to start the car this morning and the new dizzy has failed. Where did I put that old Lucas dizzy, oh yes I was about to canibalise it for the morris 8. I will have to put it back together tonight and refit it.
_________________
1936 Morris 8 Series 1
1973 MGB roadster
1977 MG Midget 1500
Dax Rush
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Electrical Restoration All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
OCC Merch link
Forum T&C


php BB powered © php BB Grp.