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Hillman Hunter engine problem
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bob2



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1727
Location: Malta

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Hillman Hunter engine problem Reply with quote

I have just now finished overhauling the engine on said car, its an all iron 1500cc
The main reason for the overhaul was that when pressing the clutch pedal the engine slowed down, almost stalling at times!!!!!!

I had been told by various people that what was happening was that the crankshaft was moving forward when pressing the clutch thus slowing down the engine.

What was done to the engine basically is the crankshaft was skimmed because it had been hitting the block since one of the thrust washers had fallen in the sump and the other one resembled more a banana than its original shape.New thrust washers purchased and one fitted and the other was fabricated in bronze since it was oversize! (the gap was measured with a feeler gauge)
When fitted back in the movement was fractional and deemed good!!
So if the problem was the movement in the crankshaft, how is it now its been fixed, the problem still remained?!

Please anyone can give me any hint on this as I am feeling rather miserable right now!!!
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welshrover



Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my wifes minx does it, its done it for years.the engine is the same as the hunter apart from the carb ,and a few other little bits . i just picked the rpm up a tad on tick over to about 800 rpm and its ok now.hillman engines dont seem to like 500 rpm tickovers. ive known a few imp engines to do the same thing too .my wifes just told me she had an hillman avenger which her dad gave her in the early eighties and he had the same problem with that he just raised the rpm's on tickover a tad too.
another thing is the carb set up right i/e is the mixture right if its too lean it can sometimes cause stalling .when coming to a stop with the clutch depressed.
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1733
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought, but did you take a look at the clutch release bearing?
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RUSTON



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 144
Location: Matlock.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Plus 1. Seems a likely candidate.

Pete.
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Measure twice...cut once!
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bob2



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1727
Location: Malta

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the clutch release bearing was deemed good still, that, and the clutch were changed some years ago whilst still in the hands of my father in law and it has had very little use in the meantime, in fact they are like new!!

The tickover was also increased but it still did the same!!
Maybe the mixture is not right though but is it possible it would make such a difference?
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Kelsham



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
Location: Llandrindod Wells Powys

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first thought is that the clutch is failing to release, this would cause the full pedal pressure to force the crank against the thrust washer.

Does the clutch operate smoothly?

Regards Kels.
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bob2



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1727
Location: Malta

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gear changes are smooth most of the time, apart from a few exceptions when I rush it a bit but then if pressed twice operates smoothly
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welshrover



Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the problem could be the dwell angle on the distributer or a worn one.
i was talking to an old guy who worked for rootes in the sixties he told me they used to get the problem you described on imps a lot and a lot of the time it was dwell angle problems .so instead of running the points at 15 thou try them at 10 thou instead .i tried it with my wifes hillman today and it seems a lot better on lower rpm's at tickover also you may need to check the timing ,ours was out a tad set it to how it was and it seems ok now .he was also saying it was happening on new cars too.but not all of them , so it seems like a rootes/lucas distributor problem. but not on the ducellier distributer which they went to later .the other thing i did was change the gearbox oil it was full of gearoil and not 20/50 -sae30 engine oil .its ok now so it could have been any of the two problems. Confused
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V8 Nutter



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 587

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Triumphs used to drop their thrust washers. The repair we used to do was build up the damaged crank and block, then re-machine them making sure the big end journals were in the correct position relative to the bores. We used Ford thrust washers because they were much bigger diameter than the Triumph originals. The problem on Triumphs was usually caused by a worn clutch that became progressively heavier as the wear increased until the tiny Triumph thrust washers gave up. I would guess you have a similar problem, but I can't remember seeing it on a Hillman before.
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bob2



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1727
Location: Malta

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like this problem can only be improved rather than solved from all the replies!!
I really hate it when it almost stalls while I press the clutch at junctions etc!!
I do not feel I can live with it so if the problem cannot be solved I might get rid of the car, shame as I've put so much time and money in it even if it was not worth it on such a car!!

However I will try the distributor first but I had it out on the bench and it did seem good, nothing wrong or worn, this car has done approximately 85000 mls and the engine has had 2 overhauls during this time, the first one it received a rebore +040 and the second one this time with new rings, new thrust washers for the crankshaft, new timing chain and tensioner and new gaskets, the rest was all deemed good, it needed just a good clean as the inside was coated in grime ( lots of it), I literally spent around 4-5 hours on my mum's kitchen hob with small parts in which oil passes and couldnt be reached with some wire to clear them off!!
It started on the floor immeduiately, we restarted it in the car before putting back the radiator and it started with the first click of the key, when it was all ready it refused to restart and the points were cleaned and reset and it started but I am not happy with how its behaving either, I'll try restarting it tomorrow and see how it fares!
And btw the oil in the gearbox was changed a couple of years ago and I put the right 20/50 in it!!
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MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 822
Location: Northern MA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can the clutch be "over"-adjusted?
When you press the pedal slowly down, at what point does the engine slow down?
Is it the same in all gears - including reverse?

I'm thinking that the clutch is releasing OK, but, after that, TOO much pressure is continuing to be applied to the release bearing & pressure plate.

The non-smooth gear shifts are more likely caused by worn syncro cones.
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bob2



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1727
Location: Malta

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MVPeters, thats something I want to try more, probably next saturday when I have more time to try things out!
However last staurday I tried it in a bit of a rush by pressing the pedal half way and tried engaging gears without success so it was not releasing but I'll try it a bit more accurately this time!!
I will also adjust the idle to be a little higher but not having a rev counter does not help!

Thanks for all the suggestions, I will keep you informed whatever happens!
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Peter_L



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2680
Location: New Brunswick. Canada.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bob. My suggestion would focus on the clutch, flywheel etc.

Could it be that at some point in history components in this area were changed for items that were not original spec. This put undue pressure on the crank thrust bearings which caused their failure.

The same is happening again, at low rpm, it would not take that much lateral pressure on the crank to cause a stall.

What happens if you leave it in Neutral, let it tick over and then press the clutch ? If there is a point when the engine stalls then something is applying too much lateral pressure on the crank.

If it only stalls when a gear is selected then, the clutch is dragging.

On a quiet road, try slowing down, foot off the gas and brake gently and then knock the gear into neutral without pressing the clutch.
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bob2



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1727
Location: Malta

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

will try all the different suggestions!!
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