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Cast or Forged
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Farmer John



Joined: 18 Feb 2010
Posts: 181
Location: Manawatu NZ

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:42 am    Post subject: Cast or Forged Reply with quote

Prompted by Mr Whiteshadow, I thought some discussion on different fabrication methods might help us understand how to fix the broken bits.
Many parts in a vehicle are forged. Not by Thor on an anvil, but by a press with dies to form the shape. When the hot metal is squeezed by the dies some will also be squeezed out where the dies meet. This leads us to the easiest way to determine whether the part is forged. The beam axle and steering arm are prime examples since the strip along the side where the excess was quickly ground off is obvious. This strip is not always crudely removed so may be indiscernible if a skilled person was allowed time to do it.
Forged parts are generally strong, at least where strength is required it is the best way for a production process as the molecules are like protesters and all line up and hold hands when challenged by a greater force.
Spanners are forged, even drop forged, where the protesters all hug each other.
The point is that forgings are good steel and can be welded even if special rods are required. Bronze welding, done by a skilled welder is ok, but just buy the correct rods from a good shop and weld away! Special purpose or something like that.
Cast parts are only used for hollow pieces or where there can be a lot of thickness to bolt them and the mating surfaces must be flat.
A spring hanger which bolts to two planes is no place for cast iron especially since chassis flex would snap it.
We have all come across an exhaust manifold with an ear broken off because of misalignment or uneven tightening.
There is cast steel about, not much in cars though.
The best test of all is the grinding test. Touch some of the part onto a bench grinder and the ensuing shower of sparks will identify the part when compared to a spark chart which I hope can be found somewhere on the interweb.
The men who can make repairs to these old parts will not be found in a garage unless you are very very lucky.
This has got a bit long, the intention was to engender confidence in the restorer so that others will not be driven to drink as has poor
Mr Whiteshadow!

John
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7113
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really good point John.

http://www.scrapmetaljunkie.com/241/the-spark-test-and-spark-testing-metals-2

http://wearanswers.com/Instant-Answers/Instant-Answers/Spark-Testing-for-Material-Identification.html

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon
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Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good write up by FarmerJohn, but there is more than one type of cast iron. Technology moves on.
One in particular is Spheroidal Graphite Cast Iron.
This was used by Ford to CAST crankshafts rather than forge them, starting around 1970. The advantage to Ford being that heavy and expensive forging equipment was not needed.
There seemed to be no problems, so whether they (or other manufacturers) still do I have no idea. Possibly other items traditionally forged are cast with the same material?
Information can be found on Wikipedia under Ductile Iron.

Jim.
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47Jag



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 1480
Location: Bothwell, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim,

I think they started using it on the 105E engines, so what's that 1963? I definitely remember them on the Cortina engines.

Art
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Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

47Jag wrote:
Jim,

I think they started using it on the 105E engines, so what's that 1963? I definitely remember them on the Cortina engines.

Art


I am not very good with the introduction dates of models or Ford engine numbers. I was going from memory and I believe the Mk1 Escort was the first. But the date??????
I did put "ABOUT 1970.
Jim.
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Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then!
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Jeeves



Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 69
Location: Blandford, Dorset

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they started using it on the 105E engines, so what's that 1963? I definitely remember them on the Cortina engines


I think the 105e was about 1960 and the mark 1 escort about 1968, speaking from memory.
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Roger-hatchy



Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 2135
Location: Tiptree, Essex

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 105e was introduced in 1959
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whiteshadow



Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:51 pm    Post subject: Driven to drink... Reply with quote

Well it all turned out ok in the end......see post!. I got my part and tipsy!
I did double check it wasn't wrought before I shelved the idea of welding.
(Crystaline not 'Green Stick' type fracture)

A sobering lesson in not using a hammer when your brain is a better tool.

Luckily I didn't have to drive to drink, the Pub is at the end of drive! Very Happy
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