Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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Glenn Crawford
Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 69 Location: Dorset, SW England
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: How to fix a slipped cylinder sleeve |
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I run a small business working on classic cars for their owners. Currently I'm working on a client's car which, on removing the cylinder head, I can see has been sleeved back to standard. In fact, it was very obvious that it had been sleeved, because one of the sleeves has slipped down the bore half an inch or so where it has then allowed the top piston ring to spring out, whereupon the ring has broken out of the top of the piston crown.
I would like to spare my client the considerable cost of removing the engine, stripping it, and sending it away to be bored out bigger and a thicker sleeve fitted. I think I can rescue the situation by using an appropriate modern compound (some sort of Loctite perhaps) to retain the sleeve in position - provided of course I can find out what the right stuff is. The sleeve is still tight enough that I will have to force it out, it obviously just isn't tight enough though.
Is there a Forum member sufficiently expert in this to tell me what product to use to stop it wandering off again? Thanks... |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4104 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Glen
Take a look at the Henkel website, there is an online product search, there will be an adhesive for this problem, some of them are specifically designed to deal with gaps i.e if the block bored slightly too large for the liner.
http://www.loctite.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_uke/hs.xsl/homepage.htm |
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dclf1947
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 107 Location: Laoag City, Philippines
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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What should be remembered when using Loctite and similar products is that they are designed for use with a certain clearance for the compound to work. If you fit a force fit component the koctite is wiped away and does not work. I worked nearly all my working life on the overhaul and reapi of aircraft componemts. I well remember on the one aircraft a leakage problem occurred when a SS sleeve was put ino a bore to reclaim it but although Loctited after a period of time most of the components were returned for leakage. To overcome the problem we had to introduce a 0.002/0.004 undercut at the top and bottom of the sleeve to enable the Loctite to do it's job. Never had a return after that.
There is a wicking Loctite but again it needs a clearance to actually wick in.
My view on Glenn's problem is to re-sleeve the bore and be done with it in case it re-occurs and causes even more damage to the engine.
Dave
Philippines |
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JohnDale
Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 790 Location: Kelvin Valley,Scotland
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Glenn, I have used Loctite 601 Cylindrical Assemblies Retainer for this purpose with good results,but as DCLF1947 says, room is required for the Loctite. You don't mention any sign of partial seizure which may have moved the liner so it may be there is enough space for the Loctite due to overbore before it was fitted,cheers,JD. _________________ 1958 Ford Zephyr Mk2 Convertible
1976 Ford Granada Ghia. |
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Glenn Crawford
Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 69 Location: Dorset, SW England
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Hi both, thanks for your considered answers, and for UKDave earlier for pointing me to the right website.
I had a careful look at the partially-displaced liner today and decided to see what it would take to move it a bit further. To make sure I applied force equally and without burring the top of the liner I made up a very thick aluminium washer to span the top of the dropped liner, and tapped that via a wooden block. I say "tap", actually it required a series of substantial thumps with a club-hammer to drive it downward around 1cm, so I am satisfied that the liner is not "loose" as such.
My plan now is to degrease the top and bottom areas, and apply Loctite 603 which seems to be an oil-tolerant version of 601 ("Retaining - High strength, oil tolerant retainer, maximum diametrical clearance 0.1mm" says their website). Using the same aluminium spacer but placing it beneath the liner, I'll use a long threaded bar with a nut and spacer on top to span the bore and pull the liner back into place until it's flush with the top of the block.
John, I didn't find any witness marks where a partial seizure might have occurred, on the other hand all four pistons have rings broken into multiple pieces which have destroyed the lands between the rings and begun to escape from the crowns of the pistons. During this process there must have been times when the bits of broken piston ring jostling for position in the ring grooves were tight against the bore.
Dave, if it were an aero engine I wouldn't hesitate; but it's an 1100cc pre-war car which is going to cover only around 500 miles a year, and given how tight the liner is I'm satisfied I'm not cutting corners inappropriately. |
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Jim.Walker
Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 1229 Location: Chesterfield
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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An old (pre-Loctite etc.) dodge was supposed to be to coat the bore with oil and fine cast iron filings before pressing the liner into place.
Don't know personaly whether it worked , but an old respected engineer said it did.
Jim. _________________ Quote from my late Dad:- You only need a woman and a car and you have all the problems you
are ever likely to want". Computers had not been invented then! |
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