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1914 Saxon
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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1771
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: 1914 Saxon Reply with quote

Isn't the internet wonderful? You go on it to research something which shouldn't take more than a few minutes, and... four hours later you are looking at something totally unrelated to what you were looking for, and you wonder how you got there Confused

Well, that's how I came to own my Saxon! I wasn't even looking for another car, but you know how it is - it creeps up on you, and rubs round you like a cat looking for food, but this one says: Buy me, Buy me!

So I did, didn't I?

It's not the first time I've bought a car on the internet, it's not the first time I've bought a car from overseas, but it is the first time I've bought a car without really having any idea of what I was getting... Apart from an article many years ago in The Automobile by Mike Worthington Williams, in which he described the unearthing of some remains in the West Country and pronouncing them as being from a Saxon, I had never heard of the make, never mind about actually seeing one.

So I pressed the keys which said Yes, arranged payment and shipment, and waited for things to develop Laughing

Eventually I got the call to say it had landed, so off I went to Felixstowe and came back with this:



Now, I rather think this is going to turn into rather a long story, so I'll leave you for the moment with this taster, and start sorting out some more pictures to keep things rolling...
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22429
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eligible for Light Car events? What a bobby dazzler Smile

R
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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1771
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick wrote:
Eligible for Light Car events?
R


Yes on two counts Laughing It's under 1500cc so qualifies as a light car in its own right, but also as an Edwardian. More info to follow...
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roverdriver



Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 1210
Location: 100 miles from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one appeared in the film Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade according to IMBDC


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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And just to keep everything in one place regarding the Saxon, here's the interesting advert that pigtin posted in another thread of something similar:



A photo of a 1913 Saxon appears in the Georgano book (US licence plate 346 fitted), along with a write-up. Have you seen these references?

RJ
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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1771
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saxon Saga Part 2

I shall assume that you know as much about Saxons as I did six months ago - next to nothing! I am not professing to be a world authority on the make, but I have done quite a bit of research, and found that quite a lot of information on the internet is misleading or even wrong - but if anyone can correct anything I say, please do so...

In 1908 Hugh Chalmers, a vice-president of the National Cash Register Corporation, took control of the Thomas-Detroit car company, changing its name to the Chalmers Motor Car Company. The 30hp Chalmers was introduced and became a popular car towards the top end of the market – at $1,500 it was three times the price of the newly introduced Model T Ford. In 1912 Chalmers decided that there was a market for a small, low-priced car and, in partnership with Harry W Ford (no relation to Henry), he set up a new company, separate from the Chalmers business, and called it the Saxon Automobile Company. A new factory at Beaufait in Detroit was built, and prototypes were soon being constructed.
By mid-1913 the design was sufficiently finalised to set up production facilities, and complete cars started to roll off the production line towards the end of the year. These were small 2-seater roadsters, fitted with a water-cooled four cylinder engine and a two-speed sliding-gear transaxle. Most references quote the use of both Ferro and Continental engines, but there seems to be no evidence that the Ferro engine (more usually found in marine applications) was ever fitted to the production Saxon. Perhaps one was fitted to an early prototype, but the early surviving cars all have Continental engines - the Type O 1½ litre, with a bore of 25/8 inches and stroke of 4 inches. Factory parts lists only show the Continental motor, so I am reasonably confident with this assertion... This was the engine that William Morris saw on his trip to the United States in 1913, a development of which (the Type U) was to go into the 1915 Morris Cowley and became the pattern for the Hotchkiss and Morris engines of the Twenties. The Saxon Type O used a coil and gear-driven distributor rather than the magneto ignition favoured on the Morris installation.
These first cars, subsequently designated Model A, were launched at the New York Motor Show in January 1914, competitively priced at $395, compared to the Ford which started around $500. This advert is from the Horseless Age magazine dated January 14, 1914 and shows the original style, more or less exactly like my car:



Much was made of the Saxon’s efficient engine and light weight achieved by the use of vanadium steel (introduced by Henry Ford on the Model T) to maintain strength and reliability. The low price included hood and frame, and lighting, which was often an extra on low-cost cars of the period. Emphasis was placed on the car being a light car, and not a cyclecar; electric lighting was available from the start for an additional $70, and electric starting could also be specified.
The model was well received, but to encourage sales several endurance runs were undertaken in the early months of 1914; one car was driven 135 miles per day for thirty days without mechanical attentions, and achieved a fuel consumption of 30mpg (US gallons). In June the same car was driven over the newly-opened Lincoln Highway from New York on the Atlantic to San Francisco on the Pacific, a distance of just over 4,000 miles completed in 30 days, arriving appropriately on 4th July.
By June 1914 improvements were being made, including more substantial full wings and running boards, followed by forward-mounted headlamps, and a more substantial windscreen, and then a fuller body style (now called Model B).


Final assembly in late 1914

Examples of Model A in use by late 1914

1915 saw the opening of a new larger factory, and 4-cylinder cars were now fitted with a slightly larger Type O engine with 2¾ inch bore (1550cc) and 3-speed transmission, and were given the designation Model 14.


The new factory in 1915

1916 saw total production reach over 28,000 units, propelling the Saxon company to eighth largest automobile manufacturer in the United States. The 4-cylinder model was now given the designation B5R (B6R in right hand drive form), but this would be the end of the line for the model; for the 1918 season the 6-cylinder model introduced in 1915 became the sole model catalogued.
I haven't yet been able to explain the sequence of model designations - A, B, 14 and B5R seems to be a most odd sequence, but they are confirmed in factory literature...

Next post I'll move on to my own car, and where I am with progress - keep watching...
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Scotty



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add a wee bit more history regarding your fabulous Saxon car - The Saxon Motor Car Company moved into a factory vacated by the Scripps-Booth company, where SB assembled their truly unique cars.

When I first saw your Saxon reference it immediately struck a cord, so I went back to my research notes and sure enough there was, and still is - a web link to this early period of The Saxon Motor Car Company history -

http://detroit1701.org/Scripps-Booth.html

Hope its of interest. Wink
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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1771
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks for that link, Scotty - I hadn't found that one.

I am now even more confused Confused

According to that site, Scripps-Booth moved to the old Abbott-Detroit building at Beaufait and Waterloo after 1914; Saxon started in the Abbott-Detroit building in 1913. Saxon moved into the building illustrated at 6900 Beaufait in 1915... and yet Scripps-Booth apparently used that building before them! Perhaps both companies only used part of the building each.

Both companies had gone by 1923, both either absorbed or taken over by the growing GM organisation. So was there a closer link between Saxon and Scripps-Booth? As far as I can ascertain, Saxon failed in the early 1920s because of poor cash flow, caused partly by the slump in car sales, and also by being over-extended by moving to yet another larger factory, in Ypsilani, Detroit. So presumably the two companies swapped factories in 1915, then S-B moved back into the Saxon factory in around 1920 when Saxon moved to Ypsilanti... except that site suggests that S-B was in the factory before Saxon Confused
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Scotty



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As with many things off the web sometimes they raise more questions than answers - it may be this is just such a case.

I'm not saying the original author of the web page has his facts slightly out of sequence, but as I'm sure you'll know its important to find another source to confirm or refute information from a single source. I've lost count of the 'wee gems' I've discovered only to have them dashed on the rocks of conflicting sources - such is life of a researcher! LOL!

Good luck in your quest, I'm absolutely certain it'll be fascinating. Wink
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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1771
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today saw the next chapter in the Saxon saga - MOT Day!

Here we are, with the tester looking a bit puzzled; I don't think he knew what to make of it, but eventually he worked his way through the few items that needed checking... and I now have an MOT Laughing



On the way home, I stopped for a quick photo shoot:







I'm still not happy with the clutch, but at least we are now up and running; all I have to do now is persuade the DVLA to give me a registration number...
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Rick
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's magic Smile

RJ
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Scotty



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does she drive like - skittery because of the wide axle and narrow wheels or does it do the job nicely?

I bet you're delighted regardless, it certainly looks the part. Cool
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Roger-hatchy



Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 2135
Location: Tiptree, Essex

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is beautiful
Well done Mike
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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1771
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scotty wrote:
What does she drive like - skittery because of the wide axle and narrow wheels or does it do the job nicely?



It's very pleasant to drive: performance is quite lively - it feels a bit like a well-sorted Austin chummy - a nice comfortable ride (but watch for speed bumps!) and nice light steering. I haven't really extended it yet, and I'll have to wait until DVLA sorts out the registration before I can take it back out on the road. Watch this space for further details... Very Happy
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earlyamerican



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 23
Location: North Lincs

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:11 pm    Post subject: 1914 Saxon Reply with quote

Looks even better with these pics. Mike.
Best of luck with DVLA, it gets harder each time I register one and with more local offices closing it will not get easier.
If I may offer one suggestion re your Saxon, make sure that the L shaped drive from the engine to the A K distributor is well lubricated as on my car it disintigrated and caused many problems getting it duplicated
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