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Hypoid rear axle oil
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FAB Cruiser



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Hypoid rear axle oil Reply with quote

Hi,

I can't find an oil for my Zephyrs rear axle. It's meant to be SAE 90 EP Hypoid. I need the same for my MGB axle and steering rack.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
David
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Julian



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 278
Location: Warrington

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CARLUBE-EP90W-HYPOID-GEAR-OIL-4-55LTR-/200476909464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ead5adf98

Though 80W/90 is probably a modern alternative.

Julian.
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JohnDale



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 492
Location: Kelvin Valley,Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi FAB, I use Smith & Allan, also available on eBay, trading shop is smith_and_allan for EP90( as opposed to multigrade) for my Zephyr.
Cheers,JD.
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exbmc



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 200
Location: Derby East Midlands

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: axle oil Reply with quote

I have used Smith and Allen, quite a lot. Mostly i get GL3 EP140 from them, for loco gearboxes. Stuff ordered is usually dispatched by return, and if you have any queries, they are very helpful.
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richardlw



Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the case of 80W-90 gear oil, it is not really a multigrade, but a 90 that has a more controled lower end. The range for was huge. Then a few years ago the SAE changed the table to brake down the category into finer groups. This chart is how it stands today, although a many show a chart without the last addition of 110 and 190 (that I don't know of anyone who ever made).

I would not use 140. way too thick to flow in anything. I found 250 in the transmission of my Renault, and you basically can't turn anything in that. For axles you want GL-5. For Sychronized transmissions GL-4 or sometimes GL-3.

If you want to know the differences, click over to here and download the pdf from the link provided.
http://www.widman.biz/Corvair/English/Links/Transaxle.html
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NONORT



Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 55
Location: Southampton

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing I will says is oldie worldie axles have felt seals not fangled lip seals and if you put SAE 90 in a felt sealed axle you will soon loose the brakes Embarassed
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Julian



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 278
Location: Warrington

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NONORT wrote:
The only thing I will says is oldie worldie axles have felt seals not fangled lip seals and if you put SAE 90 in a felt sealed axle you will soon loose the brakes Embarassed


What grade would you suggest the OP uses in his axle?

Julian.
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NONORT



Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 55
Location: Southampton

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest using API GL4 EP90. It's available in helfrauds all though I use a small local lubrication stockist who is a mind of information on all things slipery. I get all my mineral oil this way as he will refill the old can. The stockist I use is CP Lubricants of Northam Bridge, Southampton other stockists are available and I have no connection with the above mentioned company except as a satisfied customer.
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Julian



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 278
Location: Warrington

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still not much the wiser I'm afraid, maybe you could help me out?

Why would an SAE90 oil leak past a felt seal anymore than an EP90 oil?

Julian.
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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 926

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EP90 = approx SAE50 so thinner
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Julian



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 278
Location: Warrington

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil - Nottingham wrote:
EP90 = approx SAE50 so thinner


Are you bringing engine oil into the equation? I wasn't, but if so then SAE90 is about equivalent viscosity to EP220. But engine oil isn't available as SAE90.... it would be like hot tar Smile And certainly wouldn't get past a felt seal!

I was thinking that NONORT was talking about a straight SAE90 gear oil without the EP additives and am struggling to understand why it should be more likely to get past a felt seal given that it's the same viscosity as an EP90.....

here's a good page that conpares viscosity of SAE gear oils with SAE engine oils: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

Julian.
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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 926

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly would not use a straight gear oil in a so called modern hypoid axle it - makes no difference in a steering rack though its only specified to keep same oil as the back axle to avoid confusion
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Julian



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 278
Location: Warrington

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil - Nottingham wrote:
I certainly would not use a straight gear oil in a so called modern hypoid axle it - makes no difference in a steering rack though its only specified to keep same oil as the back axle to avoid confusion


I don't imagine anyone would use a straight oil in an axle, (hypoid or otherwise) calling for an oil with EP additives. But that's of no relevance to my question.

NONORT said this:

The only thing I will says is oldie worldie axles have felt seals not fangled lip seals and if you put SAE 90 in a felt sealed axle you will soon loose the brakes

And to assist with my understanding of why a SAE90 will pass a felt seal more readily that EP90 you said this:

EP90 = approx SAE50 so thinner

None of the above makes much sense (unless taken out of context) and I was hoping for an explanation as I'm always keen to learn. I apologise if I'm sounding pedantic but as always with these things the devil is in the detail.

Julian.
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richardlw



Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, let's get a few things straight.

First, there are two SAE viscosity charts. One for Gear Oils and one for Engine Oils.



You will notice that a SAE 50 engine oil is approximately a SAE 90 gear oil. The upper range of a SAE 40 engine oil reaches into the 90 gear oil range, but in general they aren't formulated that high to leave room for thickening by oxidation.

Second, there are EP gear oils and non-EP gear oils. They both go by the same table.

Third, as you will see on this table http://www.widman.biz/English/Tables/J306.html

SAE 80W-90 or 90 have the same top end of 90, or 18.5 cSt at 100C. The viscosity difference allowed is that a straight 90 has to be at least 13.5 cSt, whereas a 80W-90 can be as low as 7.0 cST. In reality, if you check the spec sheets, you will find 90% of the brands formulate both at about 14.5 to 15.0. If you are worried about it not leaking through felt seals, look at the spec sheets to make sure the brand you choose is in the upper end, whether it says 80W-90 or 90.

In other words, if I have a 14.5 cSt 80w-90 in stock, I can label it as 90, 80W-90, 85W-90, or even 75W-90. Personally I would never label it as a 75W-90 as there would be customer complaints on shift quality. But those are the rules. [/b]
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NONORT



Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 55
Location: Southampton

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Julian and fellow posters, Sorry to have created a problem with this post. I inadvertantly expected that we were talking about gear oils all along. I then compounded the problem by using the old SAE system. As I understand it the EP part of the viscosity chart stood for 'Extra Pressure' which are elements added to oils to make them last longer in service. HP I though stood for 'High Pressure' or 'Hypoid'. Hence the very long periods between changes in modern cars. One of the cars that I work on has a service period of one thousand miles between oil changes in the rear axle. With modern oil tecnology this could be extended to many thousands of miles with little likelyhood of problems. On the oil seal debate I understand that engine oils are meant to be thrown off and recycled back through the system very rapidly, not only to lubricate the bearing but also to cool it. In a gear enviroment you want the oil to stick to the revolving parts for longer. Engine oils tend to 'wick' through the felt seal fairly quickly due to there 'wetting' nature. Gear oils will stick to the felt strands and effectively make an labrynth seal of many parts yet remain lubricated enough to stop them from self distructing. Many thanks to richardlw who inserted the chart it does make some sense of what I tried to say originally and much more elequently. Many apologies for any confusion that I caused with my original post.
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