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Bad Vibrations
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Bad Vibrations Reply with quote

Hi

Although this is a problem with the Stag, Its more general advice needed hence posting here..

I’m getting a really bad vibration on the Stag at any speed over 35mph when there is any form of acceleration, taking your foot off the accelerator and the vibration instantly goes, for this reason I suspect the problem is in the transmission rather than wheel balance?

The Stag is rear wheel drive with drive shafts from the diff that have UJ’s, would I be right in thinking that because the vibration is load related its more likely to be a worn joint, either on the prop or one of the drive shafts, than say prop shaft balance ?

Cheers

Dave
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22429
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't help with your specific question.

Does the prop have a centre support mounting/bearing? That could be playing up, the centre mounting on an old 7-Series I had needed replacing due to a vibration. I'd also be looking at engine and gearbox mounts too, my green E83W had a terrible shudder which was traced to a broken tie-rod that fits to the side of the gearbox and runs to the crossmember.

R
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Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
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Location: Chesterfield

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, your description of vibration under power and not on over-run is typical of a few failed needle rollers in Hardy Spicer type UJs. With some needle rollers missing or disintegrated the spigot will tend to displace any remaining ones to the non-drive side of the cups. Which throws the joint (and hence propshaft) out of balance under power but back into balance on the over-run when centred by the intact rollers.
Maybe if you tried driving everywhere backwards the symptoms would reverse themselves. Wink
JIm.
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1733
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just out of interest, does this Stag have a manual box, or auto?
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies;

Rick, there is a quill joint between the propshaft and diff, this houses a single roller bearing and is a pain to remove, lots of dismantling Sad

Jim, there are Hardy Spicer UJ's on the prop and the 2 drive shafts, I guess failure of any of these could be the cause? however they are all quite easy to change Smile

Bitumen Boy, its a manual, curious as to why you ask?

Cheers

Dave
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
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Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheer nosiness really on my part Very Happy but maybe some knowledgeable soul knows of a specific problem with either 'box. I'd start with the Hardy Spicers, particularly the driveshafts. I'm guessing they're not such vile instruments of torture as Herald ones... Twisted Evil
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Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bitumen Boy wrote:
Sheer nosiness really on my part Very Happy but maybe some knowledgeable soul knows of a specific problem with either 'box. I'd start with the Hardy Spicers, particularly the driveshafts. I'm guessing they're not such vile instruments of torture as Herald ones... Twisted Evil


"vile instruments of torture"????
Fitting a repair kit to Hardy Spicer UJs is one of the easiest jobs on a car, except for the ones which are staked in. Difficulties are usally the result of tackling the job wrongly by pressing the cups inwards in a futile attempt at dismantling. The cups must be displaced outwards by supporting the shaft and tapping the yoke so that the cup comes outwards past the circlip groove.
Jim.
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Last edited by Jim.Walker on Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jim.Walker



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, levering with a bar (tyre lever?) between each cup (both sides) against the spider should reveal any wear fault in a UJ. Any movement at all shouts "scrap it or repair it".
Jim.
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Bitumen Boy



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim.Walker wrote:

Fitting a repair kit to Hardy Spicer UJs is one of the easiest jobs on a car...


In most applications, yes - but not Herald halfshafts. Everyone I've spoken to about them agrees it's a vile job, and having had my Herald long enough to have done most jobs, I'd sooner do pretty much anything else. It's such an unpleasant job that at least a couple of the Triumph specialists seem to do a reasonable trade in fully recon exchange units at getting on for £150 a side, when a HS kit is what - £10? If pushed for time - say you needed the car for work on Monday - I'd even say that's perhaps not too unreasonable (I reckon on a week each side to do the whole job, including the wheelbearing). And this is even considering that pulling that whole subassembly off the car isn't much fun either. Every car has (at least) one really nasty job, and on a Herald it's the halfshaft UJ's.

Still wouldn't sell it though Wink and might even have another one day Smile
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Julian



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
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Location: Warrington

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bitumen Boy wrote:


Still wouldn't sell it though Wink and might even have another one day Smile


I know this is a 'long-shot' but was it you I chatted with last summer in the McDonald's car-park on the Bath Road at Heathrow? A red rag-top I think...

Julian.
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Jim.Walker



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bitumen Boy wrote:
Jim.Walker wrote:

Fitting a repair kit to Hardy Spicer UJs is one of the easiest jobs on a car...


In most applications, yes - but not Herald halfshafts............


Removing/replacing the shaft from the car is a different issue. I was talking about over-hauling the joint.
Removing/replacing the do-nuts on MkII Vitesse Carden Shafts (half shafts do not have UJs) is a much more difficult and frequent job!

Jim.
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JohnDale



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave, Quill shaft bearing is not normally a major problem,only for oil leaks from the seal.
I would suggest Jim is right on the money with HS joints & it should be relatively easy to track down the culprit. One other thought comes to mind - rear engine mount(at the back of the gearbox) might be worth a look at,cheers,JD.
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
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Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julian: Not me, yellow saloon, never been anywhere near/never want to go anywhere near Heathrow! Or McDonald's, come to think of it... Am I right in thinking you were talking uj's with this other guy?

Jim: Sorry, but I don't agree. Propshaft joints that can just be bunged in I don't have a problem with, but these little horrors are something else. Maybe if you had a good selection of the proper selective-thickness circlips - like half a dozen of each size Rolling Eyes - they wouldn't be too bad, but having to mess around with homemade shims (usually leading to cut fingers Evil or Very Mad ) to eliminate the endfloat and ensure a quiet joint is a pain in the bum. Plus the shaft (I know halfshaft isn't technically correct, but it saves some people getting it mixed up with the prop), even without the hub and trunnion, manages to be both heavy and awkward to get hold of, as well as being predictably greasy and filthy. Removing the unit from the car is, of course, part and parcel of the job, if you can overhaul uj's in situ you should probably be using your superpowers towards some more productive end... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Julian



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
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Location: Warrington

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bitumen Boy wrote:
Julian: Not me, yellow saloon, never been anywhere near/never want to go anywhere near Heathrow! Or McDonald's, come to think of it... Am I right in thinking you were talking uj's with this other guy?



I share your sentiments. I too was not wanting to be near McDonald's at Heathrow but I'm afraid work sometimes takes me there!

Julian.
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Bitumen Boy



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure which would be worse, really - going to Heathrow but not McDonalds, or just going to a local McDonalds...

When I was still at school the beaks came up with a scheme, essentially to bribe the kids not to misbehave (or heckle them in assemblies, yes really!). Incidences of good conduct led to one being presented with a "merit slip", which chitties were then tallied up at the end of each week. The highest number of merit chitties earnt a "reward" - a Friday lunch of McDonalds burger and fries. This was fetched by one of the beaks from McDonalds on the other side of Cheltenham - at least 5 miles off, and the traffic in town meant it was always cold and greasy upon arrival, it never occured to them to take the winner into town and get it hot. For some reason, this was regarded almost universally as a wonderful treat! After once being the unlucky winner of this "prize", I was always careful to "lose" a proportion of the merit chitties I received (it didn't take any effort to pick them up) to make sure I never won again. I'm proud to say that I have never eaten any McFood since that day Very Happy though I did almost get a McJob once Confused but pulled out when I realised how much McBullshit I would have to put up with... Shocked Shocked Shocked
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