Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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colwyn500
Joined: 21 Oct 2012 Posts: 1745 Location: Nairn, Scotland
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Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: Pre-War Austin wings Paint Finish |
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Can anyone confirm that the wings were finished in enamel and not cellulose? I think I have seen them being dipped in an old promotional film. |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4100 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Hi Colwyn500
I’m certainly not an expert on paints, but have done some research on automotive paints and techniques for my MGA and various pre war Morris’s restoration.
The first point is that the automotive industry has liberally mixed up descriptions and terms for paints, making the whole business of understanding what paints were used where and when, far more complicated than it should be! The noun enamel has morphed into a verb describing a general type of paint finish!!; enamel originally was the name for coloured glass fused to metal, then seem to be used for oils based gloss paints, and these days seems to describe any paint that has a hard gloss finish! We see synthetic enamels, 2 pack enamels, oil based enamels etc.
Many pre war cars had paint described as for example “Blue over Black”; meaning a Blue body with components like wings, running boards and other body peripherals finished in black. Now you would think that the factory would paint the body in the blue colour and the wings and other peripherals in black, but on inspection of un-restored vehicles, its evident that the body has been painted black first ;engine bays would not have the body colour, remove the headlining and the body is black, with the colour painted “over” only for the body exterior.
Returning to your original question, I can’t think why a manufacturer would use a different type of paint or finish for the wings, I don’t believe that the wings would have had a vitreous enamel coating as it would be too brittle for flexing body components? . I have only seen dipping paint method used when its “cathodic dipping” (the paint is electrically charged and attracted to the body) this is used by modern vehicle manufactures to get a primer in to every nook and cranny of a body shell, the dipping process is used because it would be very difficult / impossible to brush or spray. I have not seen it used for a top coat, may be someone else can shed some light here?
Coach enamels, go back a long way, they are oil based for brush painting, I guess a some point in time the volume vehicle manufacturers, would have moved from brush to spray painting, not sure exactly when? I suspect it was would have been after WW1 when cellulose paint was first used by Henry Ford.
In terms of the types of paints used by UK manufacturers for vehicles made in the 30’s through to the 70’s, they inevitably only give advice for the re-finishing trade, this generally was synthetic or cellulose primers and cellulose top coats.
If you want originality for the paint; I’d stick with Cellulose, which despite what you read on the net, is still readily available.
It may be worth talking to a firm like HMG Paints, who have been around a long time, but still small enough to get to talk with a sensible individual! and will probably tell you I am talking rubbish!!
Dave |
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norustplease
Joined: 11 Apr 2011 Posts: 779 Location: Lancashire
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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I think that Dave is right, however a lot of light commercials were supplied from the factory in primer and were then coach painted and hand signwritten by third parties for the end users. Larger vehicles were also brush or even roller painted, in the case of large vans, since spray painting was expensive and craftsmen were relatively cheap.
I think that you can safely say that if you are looking for an authentic finish for a thirties car, then cellulose is probably the way to go. _________________ 1953 Citroen Traction
1964 Volvo PV544
1957 Austin A55 Mk 1
Boring Tucson SUV |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4100 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Likewise many British cars were exported; Completely knocked-down (CKD), in primer for the local builder to paint in their paint of choice.
The challenge manufacturers had in the pre cellulose days was drying times; this could be days , with the associated storage costs and risk of contamination or damage as the paint dried.
Dave |
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