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Seized broken bolt.
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BigJohn



Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 954
Location: Wem, Shropshire

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Seized broken bolt. Reply with quote

I have a flush broken bolt that hold my water pump on. It is 5.25" long and about 2" goes through the alloy water pump housing, the rest through the alloy timing chest into an alloy block. (who designed this lot, the Marquis de Sade?) The pump will not shift off the bolt which is now a stud, corrosion had got it gripped. I have tried heat, Plus Gas, and I have managed to trepan a 1/2" down the shank and am now using phosphoric acid at 46% (bit stronger that Coca Cola). I am partially disabled and so only have about 20 mins work time at once. I am also working through the rad aperture to get at it square on. Any ideas I haven't tried? Welding a washer/nut is out of the question, the corrosive grip is too great to release anyway.
It is the bolt head seen to the left just under the water pipe and fan boss cut out in this pre strip pic.


Cheers
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Mog



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 661
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stronger heat with an oxy. torch , if possible. It should break down the corrosion. Good luck !
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BigJohn



Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 954
Location: Wem, Shropshire

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mog, cheers but nope, it's not having any with the judicial application of heat, although I did discover the flash point of Plus Gas Laughing .
The Acid seems to have done a bit this morning, and I had a brain wave last night, I am going to cut some teeth on my home made tube drill for left handed cutting, and bang the drill in reverse hammer action. If the vibration loosens the bolt/stud at least it will be already be heading outwards up the tube drill.
But more pressing work needed doing today, the Khazi flush went AWOL.

John.
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pogo



Joined: 01 Feb 2013
Posts: 51
Location: Limousin. France

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Bolt Reply with quote

Hi.
This may be frowned upon by some, but it has worked for me on a couple of occasions in the past.
Can you drill down the center of the stud? It doesnt have to be dead center. I have found that the heat of progressively larger drills provides enough heat to loosen the bolt. Then drive in a hex key, slightly bigger than the hole, and reverse turn it. Or use the correct tool, the reverse thread extractors if you have them.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/stud-extractor-set-8-pieces/20084?kpid=20084&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=CPD2zLTF5LkCFbLHtAod0GMA4w

Its a bit brutish, and there is slight risk of damage, but if you are really stuck.............

Paul
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BigJohn



Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 954
Location: Wem, Shropshire

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, the problem is the bolt is over 5" long and If I can get the water pump off, 2" of the length, I will then have a 2" stub to play with. The alloy water pump has a grip on the bolt like a scrap mans pit bull. It looks like I'm in for the long haul. The bolt is only 5/16" thread. (8mm).

5/16"x5 1/4" bolt? Into alloy? Madness Shocked
Why Oh Why didn't they use studs?
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Mog



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 661
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the water pump scrap or not ? If it is scrap you could drill holes around and break a bit of alloy off around the bolt. How about a new photo of work in progress ? Hit the alloy around the stud with a brass drift and hammer. Even if there is no room for it to move ,it could "bounce " .
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you get a slide hammer on the pump?

Another way I have used to free a seized stud is to drill the stud an inch or so, then blast it with freezer spray; freezer spray is used to find electronic faults, it comes in an aerosol with a convenient narrow tube so the spray can be directed into the hole drilled in the stud. If you can get the stud to shrink momentarily and have the action of a slide hammer on the pump at the same time?

Cheers

Dave
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BigJohn



Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 954
Location: Wem, Shropshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Guys, I like the freeze spray idea to break the grip of the corrosion, but I have tried heat and cooling unsuccessfully.
The pump is scrap as the bearing is wobbling and groaning like a fat lad between a pie shop and a chippy, but that is only part of the problem, as for a photo of work in progress, see the above pic and ignore the bolt head. Laughing
I have been using a hammer drill when my drill when blunt and that didn't shock it, nearly made me deaf though, now using ear defenders.

I'm making slow progress with my home made tube drill and acid, so I think I might be able to get the pump off. But it is very slow progress.
Once the pump is off I have another 3" ish of timing chest cover which will have the same grip
THEN I've got to get the seized section of thread out of the alloy block.
Who designed this thing, I feel like I'm in some Kafkaesque parallel world! Laughing
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Mog



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 661
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some years ago I had a Ford 6 cly. and there was a noise under the bonnet. After looking I decided that it was the water pump bearings. I bought and fitted a new pump but the noise was still there. It was the bearings in the alternator, so I took it off and fitted new bearings. No more problem, I always have a smile about that.

At the local hard ware they had some tubular drills that could cut holes in alloy drink cans. I did not take much notice at the time. They could have been cheap with a little bit of diamond dust on the end. They might help on your job.
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BigJohn



Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 954
Location: Wem, Shropshire

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I changed the alternator bearings this spring, they were u/s. (the needle roller one just fell apart and the ball bearing one was running in rusty paste)
Most of the cars problems are due to its low mileage and lack of use in the last few years of the previous owners life, from the back brakes were seized solid right through to the screen washer pump full of glue like gunge. Each fault has slowly appeared over my 3yrs of custody
I have found a 10m/m od diamond grit tube drill for ceramics on ebay. I can guarantee I'll get the pump off before it arrives Laughing
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BigJohn



Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 954
Location: Wem, Shropshire

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WooHoo! Got the B off using a combination of drilling around the bolt/stud, but it still wouldn't budge, then I ran an 10mm diamond grit ceramics tube drill ( best £3.60 I've spent on Ebay) down it as far as that would go, it still wouldn't shift as the tube drill was 1/4" too short. So I banged an old screw driver in the gasket gap and hit it with a BFH. And the B moved!

Chewed hole by the big pipe outlet and the diamond grit drill



Bolt/stud now.



I'm happier than a stud dog with two, well you know, I'm happy Laughing

Just to get the broken bolt out now.......
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D4B



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 2083
Location: Hampshire UK

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a relief, thought I was going to have to drive up there and lend a
hand..... good luck getting the bolt out Cool
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BigJohn



Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 954
Location: Wem, Shropshire

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This morning I snuck up on the bolt, attached a small pair of Vise Grips, small so I couldn't have enough leverage to snap the bolt at the root. The wretched thing was finger tight, and oily, it appears to have been put in with gear oil by the smell, if only the water pump bit had been as liberally dosed. But, a result is a result. Laughing
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Mog



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 661
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done ! You just have to keep trying with those sort of things. How about a few details of the car ? Or is that on another thread ? V8 for sure .
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ka



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 600
Location: Orkney.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:38 am    Post subject: Engine ID Reply with quote

Rocker box covers look like Rover V8?
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KA

Better three than four.
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