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Ashley
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 1426
Location: Near Stroud, Glos
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 Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW the American Ford Flathead V8s run at about 25 on the road cruising and 10 or less at tickover, but I have a friend with a hotted up Y type and I'm pretty sure he's said it has almost no pressure when hot.
When I ran Ford Pops I don't remember them having a gauge, but I do remember the big ends going and it being obvious, so if it doesn't knock, I think it's probably okay. |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7118
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| alapimba wrote: | hello
the 100E don't have any relieve valve.. so that point seems out of question (unless the valve is on the pump but the oil pump is new).
I was wondering if it's possible to loose pression trhought the valve tappets? |
Yes, the relief valve in the 100E was moved from the front of the engine to the oil pump itself.
Take the sump off and examine the pump and also take the caps off the bearings whilst you are there.
Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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Old Wrench
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 226
Location: Essex and France
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| alapimba wrote: |
if this is too low, Can it be in the parts that link oil pump/camshaft/distributor?
The parts at the right side of the diagram:
http://www.smallfordspares.co.uk/plates/32-100e-engine-interior
Can it be the valve tappets?
He is so tired of the car! Everything else was replaced. pistons bearings oil pump... |
Key to oil pump components:
Key:
6608 = oil pump driven shaft
6610 = oil pump driven gear
6602 = oil pump body
6616 = oil pump end cap
6663 = oil pump pressure relief valve "poppet" head
6654 = relief valve pressure (compression) spring
6615 = oil strainer housing (input to pump)
6623 = strainer gauze mesh filter
6626 = mesh retaining clip
Oil Pump: the gears and the casing wear from their rubbing action.
Relief Valve: the poppet (mushroom head) can wear as can the seating face. The pressure spring can also become fatigued.
Can it be the valve tappets?
No. The valve stems are fed by splash feed from the camshaft as are the tappets. The camshaft is pressure fed via galleries in the block. A worn camshaft can produce low oil pressure, but this is only marginal since on side valves and overhead valves camshafts are designed to run in pressed in shell bearings, pressure feed, but loose tolerance, as the oil loss creates an oil bath effect before falling back into the sump.
On old engines, low oil pressure and knocking from the big ends and/or rumbling from the mains usually denotes worn mains/ends and a worn oil pump. Solution almost invariably is to regrind the crankshaft (unless it has been reground previously and is beneath lowest tolerance when it will need re-metalling firstly) and new mains, ends and thrust washers.
In the case of the E93A and earlier its a case of re-metalling the bearings with babbit. The 100E is shells.
People do try and replace bearing shells and oil pump hoping this will solve the problems: never does and false economy. |
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alapimba
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Old Wrench wrote: |
People do try and replace bearing shells and oil pump hoping this will solve the problems: never does and false economy. |
well.... so what should be done?
before replace the bearing shells the crankshaft has been machined acording the new bearing shells dimension. the oil pump is brand new.. Whats your advice? |
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Old Wrench
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 226
Location: Essex and France
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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According to this reference source, the oil pressure (hot) should be 30 PSI.
All oil pressure drops on tickover. Usually to about 7 psi or even lower.
How are you testing the oil pressure? |
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alapimba
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Old Wrench wrote: | According to this reference source, the oil pressure (hot) should be 30 PSI.
All oil pressure drops on tickover. Usually to about 7 psi or even lower.
How are you testing the oil pressure? |
i have 20PSI with oil cold...
on the case of my friend it drops to 3psi on tickover with the engine hot....
he is measuring with a gauge connected to the engine block. |
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peter scott
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7118
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| alapimba wrote: | | the crankshaft has been machined acording the new bearing shells dimension. the oil pump is brand new.. Whats your advice? |
Not all shells are the same. I bought a set of main bearings some years ago that came in a plain white box. They looked OK when fitted but 1000 miles later they were worn out. Completely useless re-manufactured parts. Fortunately I then managed to find a set of proper Glacier new old stock shells and they still maintain good oil pressure 10,000 miles later.
Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon |
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Old Wrench
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 226
Location: Essex and France
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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First, I much agree with Peter.
Just because a part comes out of a box, one can never, ever take it for granted it is correct and in tolerance.
This is why one always runs a micrometer over the part.
For crank pins, an external mike; for shells, mount them in the rod, nip up the caps and use an internal micrometer. (Remembering a shell bearing is essentially oval and is not "round" as such, until the conrod is mounted and tightened to the manufacturer's recommended torque setting). However, a rough check can be made by using an external micrometer on the shell and an external micrometer on the crank journal for correct "undersize".
You can tell I used to "Blueprint" engines! I can well remember visiting the major Ford distributor in Colchester who used to stock a wide range of ford competition parts and spending a happy afternoon, sorting carefully thru their rack of steel twin cam cranks for a new engine.......to be fair, they were very patient with me!
Same with a "new" oil pump: has the relief valve been checked, for example?
This thread has become rather confusing, alapimba: since there are two different cars/engines.
Can you please, now, tell us each car/engine's problems again?
Thanks. |
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alapimba
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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This problem is on a Ford 100e engine
All parts bought On small Ford spares |
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ka
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 600
Location: Orkney.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:30 am Post subject: |
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First job is to drain the straight 30 oil, and refill with 20/50, then see how this runs.
It may be worth popping the sump off, and fitting a new pressure release spring in the pump.
Cold pressure, and pressure on new oil will always be better, allow the engine to warm then check pressures.
_________________
KA
Better three than four. |
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alapimba
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| ka wrote: | First job is to drain the straight 30 oil, and refill with 20/50, then see how this runs.
It may be worth popping the sump off, and fitting a new pressure release spring in the pump.
Cold pressure, and pressure on new oil will always be better, allow the engine to warm then check pressures. |
i had 20w50 and still no pression. thats why i tried not with the sae30.. it didn't changed much.
with a new oil pump do you think it's worth order another spring to replace a new spring?
To clarify this.. my friend have this car at about 4 years.. the engine didn't have good oil pressure so he decided to rebuilt the engine. after rebuilt he must have done 10/20km . New pistons and rings, new oil pump, new main and end bearings, the engine and crank was machined to fit the new main and end bearings as they were not std.
he started with 15w40 then 20w50 and now sae30.
the presure were allways the same... low |
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Old Wrench
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 226
Location: Essex and France
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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If there is a core and basic problem, then even adding SAE 90 oil will not solve it!
I suggest you check:
The oil pump: in particular the pressure relief valve. Even though new there could be a problem with its seating.
I would probably make up a suitable adapter into the orifice where the pump feeds the oil under pressure and put the whole system under air pressure and listen carefully around the crank (mains and ends): if you have poorly fitting parts you will hear the air escaping.
Clearly you have one of the following problems: either (a) The oil pump is not picking up properly and/or not feeding at designed pressure: or (b) The pressure Relief Valve is not sealing correctly; or (c) Oil under pressure is escaping from a bearing or fracture in the block where the oil galleries feed through.
Final thought: have you checked and tested the calibration of the oil pressure gauge you are using?
Can be done with a compressed air line and paint spraying regulator with accurate gauge, for example.
(n.b. Gauge calibration is carried out using a small brass hand pump and very accurate pressure gauge, same as compressor reservoir safety testing.) |
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alapimba
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:02 am Post subject: |
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that chance that you mentioned of a fracture in the block.
how can i check that? theres any way? i never got water on the oil. so it has to be a fracture in the oil galleries only.. |
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Old Wrench
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 226
Location: Essex and France
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| alapimba wrote: | that chance that you mentioned of a fracture in the block.
how can i check that? theres any way? i never got water on the oil. so it has to be a fracture in the oil galleries only.. |
Compressed air to carry out a pressure leakage test of the oil galleries. |
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ka
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 600
Location: Orkney.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Can I ask for some more clarification on the engine, not all 100e engines are the same.
The early ones were using white metal in their big ends, the later engines moved to shells, for both big and main bearings.
All the 100e engines had bigger inlet valves compared to the exhaust (E93's used the same size, with some identified by ex/in stamped on the head, or ex stamped in the id numbers on the valve stem).
For further information, Ford also learnt from the E93's in the Camshaft area.
The block on the 100e is machined to take shells for the camshaft to run in, similarly the cam is slightly different, in that the pressure 'shell' running journals were shrunk on, hardened inserts. (One of the biggest areas of oil pressure loss in e93's was around the centre journals on the cam).The cam timing was also altered to give a couple more BHP at the top end (if memory serves right, it runs 3 degrees later), they were easily identifiable by using twin dowels in the end to locate in the chain wheel. Most e93 owners advance their cam accordingly to gain this extra power, or just fit the 100e cam.
Is this engine using a 100e cam?
_________________
KA
Better three than four. |
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