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Sealed Bearings in a pre war gearbox
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:38 pm    Post subject: Sealed Bearings in a pre war gearbox Reply with quote

I rebuild a few box's for follk; on my 3rd Morris 8 box this year!

Originally the bearings were open but with a shield. The shields have to stay as they affect the position of the mainshaft, however.....

Recently I have been using "RS"spec bearings ie they are sealed, but I pick one of the seals out when the bearing is at at the "end" of a gearbox; this means that oil is restricted "out" of the box, but normal gearbox oil can flow to both lubricate and cool the bearings.

In the case of the Morris 8 and the Morris 10, the gearbox is over engineered, and nearly all bearing failure is down to contamination...I'm thinking of using completely sealed bearing in the future...

Any thoughts?

Dave
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colwyn500



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 1745
Location: Nairn, Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, I used to work on commercial mowers such as those you see dragged behind a tractor on a playing field. We used lots of bearings on the cutting cylinders which were meant to get greased every day. We experimented using sealed bearings to get around the occasional neglect and the very hostile environment. They did last a bit longer but not much. Quite often the sealing discs got pushed out in any case.
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goneps



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 601
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

Why buy sealed bearings for a gearbox? Surely standard 'open' bearings are the correct choice?

Richard
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goneps wrote:
Dave,

Why buy sealed bearings for a gearbox? Surely standard 'open' bearings are the correct choice?

Richard


Mainly to reduce bearing wear, but also to help keep the oil in the box..

I recently rebuilt a high mileage modern box, the bearings were sealed and didn't really need replacing. Most people don't change gearbox oil very frequently; open bearings will get contaminated and wear accelerated.

Its probably a mute point given the low mileage that most of our cars do, but leaving a seal in the bearing at each end of the Morris 8 4 speed box should certainly help to keep the oil in .

Cheers

Dave
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goneps



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 601
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukdave2002 wrote:
Its probably a moot point given the low mileage that most of our cars do, but leaving a seal in the bearing at each end of the Morris 8 4 speed box should certainly help to keep the oil in .


Hmm... This has a ring of desperation about it, Dave! If you really want to keep the oil in it's relatively simple to fit lip seals—but you know that as well as anyone.

And did you really mean to say "the Morris 8 4-speed box", or was that a typo? Either way, whether an 8 3-speed or E 4-speed, lip seals are the answer. In both cases there's still the matter of unsealed selector shafts going straight through into the bell housing.

Richard
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goneps wrote:
ukdave2002 wrote:
Its probably a moot point given the low mileage that most of our cars do, but leaving a seal in the bearing at each end of the Morris 8 4 speed box should certainly help to keep the oil in .


Hmm... This has a ring of desperation about it, Dave! If you really want to keep the oil in it's relatively simple to fit lip seals—but you know that as well as anyone.

And did you really mean to say "the Morris 8 4-speed box", or was that a typo? Either way, whether an 8 3-speed or E 4-speed, lip seals are the answer. In both cases there's still the matter of unsealed selector shafts going straight through into the bell housing.

Richard


Hi Richard

Not so much desperation but simplicity Smile it struck me that whilst I have been machining bits of box's to keep oil in , that by using sealed bearings anyone could archive the same oil containment results without having to machine anything.

I called it a Morris 8 4 speed box as I thought most folk who run 8's would know it's from the Morris 8 SE !

Cheers

Dave
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goneps



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 601
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

I wonder about the effectiveness of bearing seals in dealing with oil. After all, their principal job is to keep dirt out, and then to retain the pre-packed bearing grease. I wouldn't expect them to be as effective as a lip seal.

Richard
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 544

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have fitted shielded bearings to many classic motorcycle gearboxes over the years.
I use a single shielded bearing with the shield outboard. then fit the actual oil seal in front of this as standard. I fill the gap between the 2 with grease. So the bearing is still lubricated with gearbox oil.
Its a belt and braces method of getting 2 seals . I have never had a British bike that leaks oil (from here).
Ive just done a similar mod to the rear hubs of my pre war Morris.. I have fitted double shielded bearings to the hubs and machined the hubs to accept modern lip seals to keep any diff oil that may get past the sealed bearings in. So replacing the original felt seals.
I am not expecting any leaks.
Mike
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