Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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trampintransit
Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 166 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:28 am Post subject: S-Type v 420g |
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I'm thinking of getting a '60's Jag.
S-Type or 420g? Anybody know what the best combo is from a fuel consumption point of view? Will a manual with overdrive give any measurable
improvement over an autobox? Are the manual boxes relaible?
The S-type has a '420g back end' ? But the 420g is obviously wider and therefore must have a bigger boot. Is it longer too? ( Thinking of where to put an LPG tank and still have a big boot?)
Anybody LPG'd any of these engines? |
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Greeney in France
Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 1173 Location: Limousin area of France
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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The 420G/Mk10 was a VERY big car so first of all check garage size
Mk10 length was 5.1m compared to 4.7 of the s'type and 2m wide compared to 1.7...
There was a little difference in the fuel consumption for the Mk10 as it was a bigger car.
Most of the Mk10s were auto Borg warner, a good gearbox but juicier than the Manual.
The Mk 10 also had the 4.2 engine whereas the S'type was the 3.8..
I had an S type for many years and loved it the MkX was a behemoth in comparison...
From what I understand you are not going to get better consumption with LPG but the cost per litre is better. _________________ www.OldFrenchCars.com
We do these things not to escape life but to prevent life escaping us |
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badhuis
Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1390 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Why not consider a 420? Same body as the S-type, but with a 420G type front.
Every time an article appears in one of the classic magazines about the 420 they say it is the best of the 'small' Jaguar saloons. Even better - it is cheaper to buy as well.
I choose a 420 compared to a Mk2 or S-type for the following reasons:
* better / larger cooling capacity compared to a Mk2 or S-type. Most 60s british cars are always frugal in this department: they only do NOT overheat when everything is kept to an absolute 100%. The Mk2 and S-type have smaller radiators and often need an extra electric fan fitted. Since I own the 420, never had any cooling problems and the radiator has not been refubished as far as I know.
* better rear suspension compared to a Mk2. The 420 has the luxury comfort of a XJ6.
* power steering standard - as far as I know. The PS of a 420 is more modern compared to a Power assisted Mk2 or S-type, it has a bit more feel to it. It is very light but I love it.
* smaller than a MkX or 420G. These are magnificent but too big really for me - everyday parking, and in/out of the garage would become more of an issue.
* 4.2 engine is a very powerful and smooth engine.
* for the same money you get a car in much better condition.
You asked about LPG. My car has LPG fitted (done that myself). There's plenty space below the rear window for the tank, on top of the rear suspension. This leaver enough boot space.
The car actually runs a bit smoother on LPG compared to fuel. I changed the ignition a bit. Do not fool yourself that it will be a cheap car to run. It is actually because it is so reliable and parts are not expensive, but cost for fuel / LPG is relatively high and will always be.
Regarding manual or auto - for many cars I prefer manual but not for big cars like the 420. The auto is not very sophisticated but does its work well. I am not a fan of the harsh manual Jaguar gearbox.
If you want a cheap running car then maybe a 2.4 Mk2 would do best. But for me a Jaguar saloon means speed and comfort and a 2.4 Mk2 is not that.
If you want better economy then maybe it is better to look elsewhere - a nice Triumph 2000 Mk1 for example.
_________________ a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment |
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trampintransit
Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 166 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Nice replies...thanks.
Re economy, I'm fully aware that running any large engined '60's luxobarge is a frankly stupid thing to do. But, if we were sensible people we wouldn't even be having this discussion!!
I'm just thinking that if as planned, I'm going to do a fair bit of longish distance highland driving ( I'm in Scotland ) then I'm just looking to mitigate the brutal costs per mile as much as I can. Thst's why I though I could live with the manual box ( pref with O'drive ) because it'd be sitting in one gear for long stretches.
I spoke to the Jag enthusiasts club and got a pretty well informed chap ( Graham ) Who told me that the manual with an o'drive is about 5-6 miles better per gallon. With an LPG on board as well cutting the cost per litre it could add up to a big saving over a year or two of touring.
I do get what you say about the 420 choice, and it does make sense, it's just that, well, this may be the last chance I get to own a car I've coveted since childhood. I just will never forgive myself. Running a 420g is indeed bloody silly, but not fulfilling a childhood dream? That'd be silly too!
Just gotta raise the money first!
( Anybody wanna buy a '47 Alvis TA14 ?)
...and then course ...find a 420g.
If I can't find one, I'll include 420 / Sovereign along with S-type in my search...I promise |
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lowdrag
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1585 Location: Le Mans
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Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:34 am Post subject: |
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If there are three things to be careful of when buying one of the unitary construction big saloons, they are firstly rust, secondly more rust, and thirdly terminal rust. The engines are tough, the rear suspension a marvel of the age, and a manual/overdrive will return more than 20mpg on a run. autos, (and Graham is right) will be mid teens at best. Me, I think the 420 is the little sister and having driven a Mk X for a while in France I just love the size of the beast. And I owned an S-type too. |
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P3steve
Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 542 Location: Great Yarmouth, Norfolk
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Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Never had an S type or 420 though there’s no particular reason I guess I’ve not got round to it yet and most likely missed the boat now but I have driven quite a few and there very fine cars and yes they do feel very much like an XJ6. I have had two Daimler V8s (Mk 2 shape) one a 69 the other a 67 and also a very very nice 63 3.8 Mk 10 and a 1970 420G as well as series 1 and 2 XJ6 and a use of an XJ12 for a few weeks and at the end of the day all the cars had there merits and like you in the end it all boiled down to a life long wish to own a Mk 10, don’t ever be put off by there size it’s a very chuckable car that shrinks round you when you drive it. Sometimes as we only get one life we must let the heart over rule the head so if I could go back and pick one again I would have to be with out a doubt the 3.8 Mk 10 the engine always seemed just that little bit more free running and willing than the 4.2. All mine were automatics by the way I have driven a manual 420G and some how it just didn’t seem right. As I said they all felt very much like XJ6s almost too much and I now own a 1940s Rover (Couldn’t afford a Jaguar Mk5) as I now want the more vintage feel when I take a car out i.e. big steering wheels and no power steering, whining crash gearboxes and cross ply tyres etc. _________________ If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off
Last edited by P3steve on Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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47Jag
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 1480 Location: Bothwell, Scotland
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Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Steve,
[/quote]All were automatics by the way
The 3.8 Mark 10 was made with a manual box option. I have an engine and gearbox from one lying in my garage.
Art |
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P3steve
Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 542 Location: Great Yarmouth, Norfolk
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Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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I meant all mine were Automatics, I knew you could get them in manual too I did have a manual box/fly wheel etc. for a Daimler V8 recovered from a car that had been broken for parts but never fitted it and sold it on with the first V8 250 I had, the second Daimler had a complete gearbox rebuild by Danes in Norwich and was a real beauty. The 3.8 Mk 10 was a 38,000 mile car and was also very sweet but the 1970 420G had a hard life and was a bit of an old dog to be honest and felt very loose all round. _________________ If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off |
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emmerson
Joined: 30 Sep 2008 Posts: 1268 Location: South East Wales
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Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Way back in the 70s, you could pick up big jaguars for virtually nothing, so I bought a Mk10 for £75! Ran it for week or two, and loved it to bits. No idea how much fuel it used; petrol was about 70p a gallon, and I was well paid, so it didn't really matter. Until one day, Herself was getting in to the car, and the door blew shut on her leg. Result was three months in plaster, three months on a stick = one very unhappy wife! Those doors are very heavy indeed.
The car had to go, as she wouldn't ride in it any more. Great shame, as the kids and I loved it!
I sold it to a local hole-in-the-wall garage. Those of a nervous disposition should look away now, because he cut the rear bodywork off and made it into a recovery truck! |
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lowdrag
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1585 Location: Le Mans
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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thought you might like this. 1994 down by the Loire. Mine's the S-type and the other an early 3.8 Mk X
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trampintransit
Joined: 09 Aug 2010 Posts: 166 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: Phwoar.... |
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...very nice.
Just to fill you guys in...I never did get a Jag (yet!)
Sold the Alvis, went without a classic for a while ( twitch , twitch ) and then bought a '60 Armstrong Siddeley Star Sapphire by mistake.
It's needing lots of welding, ( body chassis / sills are away , the main chassis however is absolutely fine ) lots of brakes and a fuel pump. Other than that she's fine!!
Bwahahaa ... That's my social life knackered for months!
Anybody know any Star Sapphire experts, I'm pretty green on them?
G |
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