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1969 Chevrolet Camaro
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kieran12345



Joined: 26 Jun 2014
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:51 pm    Post subject: 1969 Chevrolet Camaro Reply with quote

Looking for some much appreciated advice.

I am a farmer/trainee aerospace engineer looking to enrol on a 1969 Camaro rolling shell project car. My hand skills are good and I am prepared to spend a lot of time and patience on this project, I estimated about 2 years (doing work on weekends and holidays) as I am an 18 year old student. This would be my first project so it will be a long learning curve. I have asked an antique car dealer and his advice was, 'If you can do the work yourself then you will easily get your money back with some profit, however if you can get the engine number to the chassis number you are in for a big profit'. I am not in this for the profit, indeed it would be nice to make a profit or even to break even. This for me is to learn the way of a classic car and to drive it with passion. My calculations for this project was around £10,000. I am generally looking for a calculation to match mine (or similar), but also to see if this project is actually possible. I have access to a number of lectures at my college to give advice, and if needed, a family member for hands on help if required, is this possible?

Car includes:
Rear axle and suspension
Front suspension
Steering rack and power pump
Disc brakes with servo
Seats
Dash
Clocks
Body panels in excellent condition
Interior all intact (my bill for this was £1,000)
Car needs new trunk/boot lid, rear glass, quarter glass

As you can tell its a rolling shell, the rest is all missing, chassis is in excellent condition, all floor pans are intact apart from rear right pan.
I will not put pure original parts onto the car, I will put exact fit duplicates.

Replies will be extremely valuable, so I will appreciate any realistic replies.

Thank you,

Kieran
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22429
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum.

Do you have any photos to hand of the car?

Putting together an incomplete car can be a time-consuming job, firstly identifying what's missing then sourcing the right parts. Have you picked up any of the magazines out there that feature old American cars regularly? they'll help you source parts, as may joining a relevant club.

As pointed out, doing as much work as possible can potentially save a huge amount of ££££, especially if you can call on friends' skills to help out with certain jobs. Even though it's a not-for-profit project, it doesn't harm to keep an eye on expenditure so that you're not majorly out of pocket, when the time to sell arrives one day. It'll also be important to use the appropriate, model- and period-correct, parts wherever possible (I'm thinking engine and trim especially).

Don't underestimate how having proper facilities in which to work will help with a major project either. While projects undertaken under a tarpaulin in a driveway can get to the end, not having secure dry storage in which to work can often be a significant hindrance. Same for having a decent range of tools to call upon.

Sorry I can't help with your financial estimations, I'm not au fait enough with Camaros to know how much a proper engine for example might cost. I know that immaculate Camaros, from the right year and in the best spec, can command big prices, bumping up prices for matching spare parts accordingly I'd imagine.

RJ
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kieran12345



Joined: 26 Jun 2014
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



I have sourced all my parts from an online American dealer camarocentral.com the total was (including delivery to my door) £3500 except engine and transmission.

I have plenty of buildings to use for cover, and a range of tools. I will put the original V8 engine inside as who doesn't want to hear those cylinders firing away as everyone is head turning.

Thank you for the reply it is much appreciated.

Do you think £10,000 and self learning is possible for this project?
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MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2464
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's certainly possible to self-learn while doing a project. Beware that can lead to doing things again as you learn a better technique for the next part. My current restoration is a learning curve, although I've welded before I've not done repair panel fabrication or any kind of extent of metalwork that I'm doing now. And there's a lot of areas of the car that I thought would be fine but I've ended up having to do major repairs on.

A price estimate isn't really possible - there isn't enough information on what might be missing or faulty, and only someone with a lot of knowledge of the specific car would be able to help there.

What you should probably do is sit down and list for yourself all the bits you don't have, then have a look around at how much it's going to cost to source them, then add a bit on for contingencies, then look at the numbers. If you don't have the original engine, I'd guess that the chances of getting the original one to make a "matching numbers" car are slim to non-existent.
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kieran12345



Joined: 26 Jun 2014
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thankyou very much Mike,

I've added the majority of the costings up and to restore the car myself would be about 7k plus 1/2k allowed for any problems/ extras so about 9k in total!

Also I can Arc weld, however would a MIG welder have to be used for the floor panels, purely because of the lack of thickness and Arc is likely to be too hot and would just end up putting holes in it?

Kieran
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22429
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert but I think MIG would definitely be preferable to arc for welding a typical floorpan.

Do you know anything of your car's history?

RJ
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MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2464
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I would think an arc welder will be too much for the thin steel used on a car bodyshell. I'm not saying it's not possible, but more people tend to use MIG even though arc welders are cheaper.
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D4B



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 2083
Location: Hampshire UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whenever I have seen any Arc welding on cars it's not been pretty, I would recommend MIG
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kieran12345



Joined: 26 Jun 2014
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick,

All I know is of the VIN number 124379N525427
But also there are papers to come with the car to show when it was cleared of customs and entered the UK, when I get a viewing (next couple of weeks) then I can see.

Cheers

Thank you Mike and DB4 much appreciated, I will have a look at getting someone to weld it for me, or buy one.
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Bugly



Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Darwin, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kieran, certainly MIG for the reasons already pointed out. With MIG and panel steel, take it little by little ... you don't want to put too much heat into the panel or it will distort. Have a spray bottle of water handy to cool the metal after each short weld (10mm or so). In the end, the angle grinder will be your best friend to tidy it up. Smile
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kieran12345



Joined: 26 Jun 2014
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugly,

Thankyou very much for that, I will perform that when welding with MIG.

Kieran
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kieran12345



Joined: 26 Jun 2014
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What sensible restoration order would be best?
Such as:
Stripping the car down to bare metal
Paint
Engine
Transmission, etc

As I have never done a car restoration before could anyone give me a detailed guide to what activites to carry out first through to last so I don't back track at any points, or miss anything out.

Thanks,

Kieran
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MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2464
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd certainly do the first two in that order Wink

It's hard to say until you've seen it and done a proper assessment of the extent of the work - that has to be the first job when it arrives, a thorough check.

My project was quite bad bodily, so I did some structural repairs, then down to a bare shell for the rest to be completed. It'll get painted, then the rest (engine, box, interior) rebuilt to go back in. Once I have a painted shell, the only issue then is making sure I don't scratch it when I'm putting everything else back together like I did with the last one.

If your car isn't so bad, for example if the back end is solid, there seems little point removing all the axle and suspension until you know you need to - if you don't need to do so to gain access for body repairs, you could leave that all in place, then see if it's noisy or clonky once it's all back together as it won't affect the bodywork.

But you'll struggle to do a good job of painting the engine bay, for example, if you put the engine back in before paint. Not impossible, but much easier if it's empty and if you're new to it, why make things more difficult? Also the more you have in place, the more chance you have of getting overspray, or the more work masking things off. Nothing looks worse (to me) than having a nice clean engine bay with paint on hoses because they were too hard to mask.
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V8 Nutter



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 587

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first thing is make sure all the paper work is in order. I think you will need the original title (that is the American version of our logbook). Depending which state it came from something from a notary to say the car can be legally exported, a bill of sale. and proof the import duty and tax has been paid. The D.V.L.A. will tell you exactly what you need. If it is not all in order you will not be able to register the car.

I would agree with everyone else MIG welding is the way to go Tig is probably better but it is slower more difficult and more expensive. Don't bother with arc unless you are very good.

Classic American is probably the best magazine to buy.

I am a member of the American Auto Club U.K. they have a website if you want more information.

On a quick breakdown of the VIN number your car is a 69 V8 built in Norwood Ohio. I think 5 or 6 V8's were available in 69 but the VIN number doesn't say which one was fitted originally. There should be another I.D. plate on the firewall with more info it may be possible to sort things from that.

Spares are readily available from several companies in this country. If you are buying parts direct from America the parts are cheap but the shipping import duty and tax ( the government has to have their slice) can be a killer. For heavy parts or body panels it may be worth renting space in a container with a company making regular shipments.
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V8 Nutter



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 587

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first thing is make sure all the paper work is in order. I think you will need the original title (that is the American version of our logbook). Depending which state it came from something from a notary to say the car can be legally exported, a bill of sale. and proof the import duty and tax has been paid. The D.V.L.A. will tell you exactly what you need. If it is not all in order you will not be able to register the car.

I would agree with everyone else MIG welding is the way to go Tig is probably better but it is slower more difficult and more expensive. Don't bother with arc unless you are very good.

Classic American is probably the best magazine to buy.

I am a member of the American Auto Club U.K. they have a website if you want more information.

On a quick breakdown of the VIN number your car is a 69 V8 built in Norwood Ohio. I think 5 or 6 V8's were available in 69 but the VIN number doesn't say which one was fitted originally. There should be another I.D. plate on the firewall with more info it may be possible to sort things from that.

Spares are readily available from several companies in this country. If you are buying parts direct from America the parts are cheap but the shipping import duty and tax ( the government has to have their slice) can be a killer. For heavy parts or body panels it may be worth renting space in a container with a company making regular shipments.
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