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Can you identify this van body please?
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science museum



Joined: 19 Feb 2015
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:51 pm    Post subject: Can you identify this van body please? Reply with quote

Hello All

I'm hoping somebody out there might be able to help with an unusual request

Here at the Science Museum in London, we have a van body (image below) that was once part of a vehicle used to carry domestic belongings for fumigation! - for example during 'slum' clearances or local disease outbreaks. It was used by Lambeth Council, we believe during the 1920s-1930s and possibly beyond. We acquired it back in the 1990s after it had spent many years out in the elements.

This is an unusual survivor and one that we are considering displaying in an exhibition at some point. However, we'd really like to pin down the manufacturer and date to help us place this object historically.

When looking through the Local Archives in Lambeth, it's clear that several such vans were in use around this period. References are made to one made by The ALBION Motor Company (in use between 1915-1935), two FORD vans, described as having a 'one ton chassis' are listed (the first from 1921 the second from 1925) as are two MORRIS Commercial 'one ton standard vans' (one in use from 1928 the other from 1935). To add to the possibilities, there is also one fleeting mention of a BEDFORD van in the handwritten notes we were given when we acquired it.

The van body was specially adapted for use - most notably by having it's inner surface lined with zinc.

Any suggestions on a definitive ID will be very gratefully received

Many thanks

Stewart





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D4B



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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Location: Hampshire UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Stewart,

I am probably miles off here, but the central "belt" on your van body
is similar to the Harrods Electric van which I photographed at Beaulieu
last year:



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roverdriver



Joined: 18 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Virtually all commercial vehicles of the period were sold as running chassis only. The buyer had the body built onto the chassis to suit his own requirements. The work would be done by a motor body builder rather than the vehicle manufacturer. Some dealers would arrange all of that for the buyer, and some dealers would have a body or two made up and installed ready to sell to a customer as a complete vehicle.

I would suggest going over the body carefully in the hope of finding the mark of the body builder. That might give a clue as to the make of vehicle the body was fitted to, as some body builders specialised in a limited number of makes of chassis.

The Ford 'One ton chassis' that you mention would be the model TT. That is, engine and transmission the same as the Model T car, fitted into a stronger frame and supplied with worm drive differential. The TT was rated as a one ton truck and they were a very popular and low priced unit. The last T's and TT's were built in 1927.
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science museum



Joined: 19 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks for the responses.

D4B - There are real similarities with the Harrods van, which would be catering very much for the other end of the social spectrum!! Perhaps this also illustrates roverdriver's point - which is something as a non expert in this area I really hadn't appreciated. Certainly, there are a number of references to various 'chassis' within the Lambeth Archives (be they Ford, Morris etc) which suggests this could be the case.

I will endeavour to take another close look at the van (currently not very conveniently held in our large object store near Swindon), but further suggestions / advice remain very welcome

Stewart
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
Off topic I know, but, is there any news as to whether Wroughton will be opened to the public again, even if only on days when other events are being held on the site such as car shows etc.?
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science museum



Joined: 19 Feb 2015
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Penman

My understanding is that for the moment there are no upcoming open days scheduled for the stores at Wroughton due to ongoing redevelopment work / object moves etc.

Individual researchers can still visit the stores and the archives by appointment, but I do imagine occasional open days will return at some point in the future

regards

Stewart
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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
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Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the body had specific features suitable for its use, it's quite possible that it could have been transferred to another chassis later in its life: perhaps starting out on a Ford TT chassis, and ending up on a Morris or Bedford chassis!
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science museum



Joined: 19 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello mikeC

Thanks for your suggestion. That certainly would makes sense - especially as it has survived as a body only - perhaps it's chassis was re-used elsewhere. A makers name is not recorded as being present and the van has suffered through sitting outside for many years, but I'm hoping there might yet be one to be found on it.

Regards

Stewart
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Rick
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have any photos from other angles, and dimensions, it might help pin it down more.

RJ
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science museum



Joined: 19 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Rick

Many thanks for your interest.

There are a couple more images below. The dimensions of the van body are approximately:

Height: 1800mm (71 inches) Width: 1600mm (63 inches) Length: 2400mm (94.5 inches)

Regards

Stewart




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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
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Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Harrod's van is a red herring. It has an integral cab, whereas the Museum body looks as if it would fit behind the cab.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone any idea why it would have been lined in zinc? , this would have been quite expensive compared to a simple wooden body?

Dave
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47Jag



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave

Is it not just galvanized steel panels?

Art
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheet zinc was once much more commonly used than today, often as a cheaper, lighter alternative to sheet lead. If the vehicle was used to carry stuff requiring fumigation, presumably the idea was that it could be hosed and scrubbed clean on a regular basis without causing problems with rot or rust. Nowadays of course there are all sorts of plastic materials, or GRP, that could be used for the purpose, but when this body was built those options didn't exist and a sheet metal lining would have been the only method available.

I suspect it wouldn't be galvanised steel, the widespread use of which seems to be a relatively recent thing. When labour was cheap and lead paints freely available, I doubt there was any real need to galvanise steel...
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science museum



Joined: 19 Feb 2015
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks for the recent posts.

Regarding the metal lining. Several references to zinc are made in the Lambeth Archives in relation to the lining of such vans. Bitumen Boy's explanation is what we believe to be the case. In transporting 'infested' belongings, the interior needed to be thoroughly cleaned in order to prevent any chance of bugs etc simply being passed onto the next user. The zinc lining was the solution at the time

Cheers

Stewart
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