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Coolant
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Wooster



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject: Coolant Reply with quote

Hi All
I'm new to old cars and I'd value some advice on coolant. Has anyone any experience of this stuff http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/
or is there something better? My 1939 Rover 14 has suffered overheating in the past. There was loads of corrosion in the water jacket. I've recently had the radiator re-cored and the water pump rebuild and I'm about to stick it all back together. Any advice on coolant would be appreciated.
Cheers
Rich
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3368
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't comment on the merits of Evans products, but most old crocks run perfectly on the original coolant spec Smile

Dave
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Wooster



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of this stuff not making the engine rust!!
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roverdriver



Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 1095
Location: 100 miles from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before reassembling, make sure that you flush out the block and head assembly as much as you can. Lots of sediment lurks within and can add to overheating problems.

I do believe in using a rust inhibiting coolant additive, but other than that just plain water works and was original coolant specification.
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1316
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wooster wrote:
I like the idea of this stuff not making the engine rust!!


If you use normal antifreeze of a reputable make (like not from a market stall or pound shop) and mix it up to the correct strength, the engine will not rust anyway, as the antifreeze contains effective corrosion inhibitors. Only times I've had problems with cooling system corrosion on older cars is when people have kept topping up with plain water rather than fix the leaking rad, generally when the car has reached "banger" status and is seen as not worth spending money on.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5981
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have personal experience of Evans Coolant but I have had good reports from others. It may be a cheaper alternative to a rebuilt radiator or cleaning out awkward cylinder blocks so long as your system has no leaks (It's expensive to loose.)

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 litre saloon
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ka



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 600
Location: Orkney.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been following this stream with interest, and am interested in the 'alternative', but think I will be disappointed.
I would expect that the coolant is water based, and contains a mixture of chemicals to inhibit rust, aid conductivity and have a vibrant colour. If it is not water based, then exactly what is the main component?
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Wooster



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went to chat to my local stockist of the Evans coolant. www.rpsrally.com They prepare classic and vintage rally cars. They put the Evans stuff in all their cars and couldn't have been more positive about it. They told me about an old Chevy that they built that won the Paris-Peking rally a year or two ago. All their rivals had overheating problems but they didn't.
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Wooster



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More details here http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/vintage-cool-180.html
I ought to make it clear I have no association with this product I'm just seeking opinions.
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ka



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 600
Location: Orkney.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a bit to do with water, in my career. Water whilst being a good conductor, does have it's downsides, and can be improved. We learnt to add foam concentrate to water, (washing up liquid will do, but only a drip or two) to break down the surface tension, therefore increasing the conductivity, but this does nothing for ant-corrosion. This is where anti-freeze has become the norm, not just to lower the freezing point, but also to increase the boiling point, give some anti-corrosion factor, and also to break down the surface tension to increase conductivity of water. Modern anti-freeze does more than just the headline on the label, with engines being constructed from alloys of aluminium, magnesium, and cast iron, a wide anti-corrosion medium is required, and also one that is PH neutral to stop any electrolytic action, hence qualities and colours.
We also rallied in the past, and also pushing the Morgan flat-out around race tracks and hill-climbs stretches the cooling system to the maximum. The ACU handbook specifies that no additives can be used in the cooling systems, so this is where the one or two drips of washing-up liquid comes in. I am not sure what the MSA Blue-Book says about additives, but for Rallying, the only concern is from the green lobby, and the effect of engine coolant additives on our trees!
So to sum-up. Use water and a good quality anti freeze, probably around a 33% mixture strength. I always look after the Rad on the Morgan, they are not available off the shelf, and have to specially made, as the core forms part of the header tank and radiator surround, a new core is not an option, and last time I looked, a new rad was around 3k.
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1033
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was the subject of some discussions on the JOC forum. I think this quote sums it up quite well:

To be pedantically precise, Evans does not reduce overheating. It reduces the effects/results of overheating i.e boiling in the coolant. It hasn't solved a problem. In fact if you read several of the replies in the other threads Evans causes an increase in engine temperatures which to me means more overheating. It's just that the coolant doesn't boil at the higher temperature so there is no visual effect to the overheating. It doesn't alter the fact that with it your engine will be running hotter than with traditional coolant (given all other factors are unchanged in a specific application). I don't think any of us want our engines running any hotter.

More in depth here:
http://www.joc.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16132&hilit=evans+waterless
http://www.joc.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15083&hilit=evans+waterless
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5981
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it not also improve the transference of heat to coolant in some way?

Peter
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1033
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First I have to say I am not an expert on this. A Jensen Owners Club member wrote some very interesting articles on this subject on the JOC forum, with sound and clear logical arguments.
As to Evans being able to transfer heat more efficiently, it seems the opposite is the case. Quote:

It is not the amount of coolant in your system that is really critical, it is the rate at which that coolant is pumped through the system.
Water has a specific heat capacity of 1.
Water with a 50% antifreeze solution has about 14% less heat capacity at 0.86 so to obtain the same cooling with antifreeze you have to pump more coolant. In other words since you have not increased the amount of coolant you must pump it more quickly.
Evans waterless coolant has a specific heat capacity of .66 so you need to pump even more coolant to achieve the same degree of cooling.
The most effective summer coolant is pure water with an added corrosion inhibitor (not ethylene glycol as in antifreeze).

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ajlelectronics



Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 168
Location: Gloucester

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few points. Firstly, water is the most efficient coolant and would be perfect if it didn't boil at 100C or thereabouts. So, it is accepted that a waterless coolant will run slightly warmer, about 5 degrees in my experience. However, people seem to feel that is somehow a terrible thing, forgetting that a hot engine is an efficient one.

The problem comes when the engine is running conventional coolant and starts to get near the boiling point. Then you get localised boiling around the cylinder walls, even though the pressure cap is holding the coolant. That leads to uneven heating and it is well known that the heads start to twist and head gaskets suffer when that happens.

With waterless coolant, you don't get any "microboiling". Therefore although the engine is a bit warmer, it is EVENLY warmer. Even heat, everything expands at the same rate, so no damage.

I would like to point out though that waterless IS NOT A CURE for overheating. The system should be in good condition before considering it.

Another great attribute is the lack of corrosion. I use alloy engines with steel studs. A nightmare to get the heads off due to electrolytic corrosion. No electrolyte, no corrosion.

One final point and the main reason I took an interest is that is doesn't attract animals and it is non toxic to them anyway.
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Evans Waterless Coolants
Find this and more at http://www.classicmicrocars.com
Sat TV / Aerial systems etc: http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk
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ka



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 600
Location: Orkney.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So back to my earlier question. If waterless coolant does not contain water, what is the main constituent?
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