Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Rich5ltr]

I may join the VSCC this year and participate in their tours & events. I see that a suggestion (if not a requirement) is that you carry a fir extinguisher.

That leads me to ask if people on here have any recommendations? I guess an extinguisher that looks vaguely vintage but that goes like it's in the 21stC would be ideal.

Thoughts?

[Ray White]

Go for AFFF (aqueous film forming foam) type.

Do NOT go for powder type - these will ruin your car if there is a fire and that assumes that the vibrations from driving have not compacted the powder so it won't work anyway.

Importantly, place the fire extinguisher where it can be grabbed quickly. Not in the boot (if you have one) and never under the bonnet.

Have it serviced regularly and hope you never need it!

[Rich5ltr]

Thanks for the advice Ray, I'll start a search.

[Keith D]

The Veteran Car Club of Western Australia has had the rule that fire extinguishers MUST be carried in all club cars for many years. However, where they go depends on the owner.

My Austin Seven has one mounted flat on the floor between the front seats. The vintage Chrysler and Morris Cowley have theirs mounted on the rear floor, close behind the front seat. The A40 has hers mounted high in the boot.

Our fire department recommend the powder type. The powder does tend to compress, but the extinguishers have a gauge on the side that is divided into red and green. Green is OK and red is not! Over here they only cost about $22 each (10 pounds) so I always replace every two years but take them out of the car and give them a good shake and knock every few months to prevent compressing. When I replace them (after two years) the little boy in me comes out and I operate them! They all still work fine!

Keith D

[Dipster]

[Ray White]

I forgot to mention that powder extinguishers are actually much better at knocking out a fire than foam and if you have a serious fire you might wish you had bought powder.

On the other hand, they are very corrosive and are a major problem to clean up after the fire.

When faced with these options, the choice of which extinguisher looks best seems less relevant somehow.

I think this is quite a hot topic.

See what I did there?

[Rich5ltr]

Indeed, I'm glad I started it. As you say appearance is incidental to the capabilities of the appliance.

[ka]

There are basically four types of fire extinguishers, Red/Cream; Red/Blue; Red/Black; Red/Green: The black and green are gas type, so not ideal for outside use, this leaves us with Red/Blue (powder) Red/Cream (Foam/AFFF).
The Foam/AFFF are ideal for liquid fires, the AFFF is specifically designed for running fuel fires, Powder is the most flexible and the best for general fires involving multiple materials, as vehicles consist of.
The previous comments are correct, dry powder does compact with inactivity, and I have always recommended that before use they are inverted, (the references to the gauge just show the pressure within the extinguisher, called the expellent). The powder in Dry powder consists mainly of sodium bicarbonate, (baking powder), in a very fine consistency, with a metallic styrate to ensure that it remains dry. Yes this makes an incredible mess when used, but so does a burnt-out vehicle.
Should you select a foam type, these are made from a mechanically based process (think washing up liquid and water, then shaking). Older foam extinguishers used a chemical process, school days using sodium bicarbonate and vinegar, but were withdrawn many years ago.
The MSC (RAC) at their motorsport training days for marshals, advocate a combined AFFF and dry powder attack, the foam to cool the powder to blanket.
The best readily available option is the dry-powder, that is unless you have some of the old, withdrawn BCF or Halon 1211 extinguishers, that were ideal for vehicle fires!
_________________
KA

Better three than four.

[Dipster]

Very thorough explanation!

One other type that none of us have mentioned was the old brass Pyrene extinguishers. Basically a "bicycle pump" type of device filled with Carbon Tetrachloride ( I think it was). Very effective but also possibly lethal as the gas could asphixiate!

But the chemical also had another property, as a degreasing agent. My dear old dad used one once to clean oil off an oil contaminated clutch plate, caused by a leaking rear main bearing oil seal, to get us home. It was summer and a bee happened to be passing at the time and I remember seeing it fall to the ground instantly. I was young and quite sad.....

[Ray White]

More about vintage fire extinguishers:

http://www.vintagefe.com/general.html

[alanb]

I have one of the old CTC brass extinguishers in my Morris (not filled), does anyone know if there is a modern/safe liquid it could be filled with to make it useable again?
_________________
old tourer


Morris 8 two seater

[Dipster]

[Ray White]

[Keith D]

Halon was a very effective fire extinguisher.

A fire needs three things; ignition, fuel and oxygen. Quite simply Halon removes oxygen from the air. It was used in electrical switch rooms extensively, but after it was released it quickly removed oxygen from the room and if a human was present, from their lungs. Death was very quick! Very sensibly it was banned many years ago. As Ray says, it was not the sort of stuff to have floating in the atmosphere!

Keith D

[ka]

During one of the less tedious periods at Fire Service College, we had a professor talking about the 'square of combustion', not the triangle that was generally accepted. The recognised fuel/heat/oxygen arrangement is not quite correct. Fuel and heat are easily understood, the oxygen part does not need to be oxygen, just any of the gasses at this area of the periodic table, but as oxygen is the most commonest, this is the one that is mostly referred to. Water (red/red) gives the cooling effect, cutting the fuel is also easily understood (foam particularly with AFFF providing a molecular wide barrier between the vapour and the heat/oxygen). But gasses and dry powder work in a different way,back to the square. The prof talked about 'free radicals' that make the chemical reaction (fire) take place, and to cut a long lecture short, inhibiting these free radicals is the bit that extinguishes the fire. Gasses (CO2) and the older CTC, BCF, Halon were given a number that referred to their inhibitory effectiveness, as an example, it takes over twice as much CO2 to have the same effect as BCF once had, ie, around 12% CO2 compared with 6% of BCF.
Dry powder interferes with the production of these free radicals, having the same net effect.
To also add to the mix, normal dry powders, foam and gasses are ineffective on metal fires, so if you have an aluminum/magnesium gearbox casing (long lost Maestro's had a high magnesium proportion casing) these can only easily be extinguished by a purpose made extinguisher, or sand if you have it handy (the silicon in sand doing the job)

Class A: SOLIDS such as paper, wood, plastic etc
Class B: FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS such as paraffin, petrol, oil etc
Class C: FLAMMABLE GASES such as propane, butane, methane etc
Class D: METALS such as aluminium, magnesium, titanium etc
Class E: Fires involving ELECTRICAL APPARATUS

Enough, buy a dry-powder..........
_________________
KA

Better three than four.