Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

jp928 · Joined: 07 Jun 2016 Posts: 249 Location: Australia

Yes, getting close now!
Did you see my story about my Cyclops ? Modified by another....90 grille and engine (in white) with chromed headlight surrounds, P3 gearbox with overdrive, absolutely terrific car.

jp

jp928 · Joined: 07 Jun 2016 Posts: 249 Location: Australia

Tried starting today with no joy. Found TDC mark and valves look OK - both No 1 closed at TDC. Verified sparks at each plug. New 100Ah battery. Tried spraying starter fluid into each cylinder through plug holes, nothing, not a pop. Ran petrol down a hose into the carb bowl, plenty there, nothing. Cranking changes when moving advance/retard. There is suction at the carb inlet when cranking. Cylinder walls seen through plug holes look clean, although the engine was overhauled a LONG time ago (according to receipts) and has never been run AFAIK. Plugs are gapped 0.020, sparks look good. Sometimes when plug pulled they were quite wet .
I really expected some sign of a bang, even if a backfire, from the starter stuff (pongs of ether), but nothing at all - just rhythmic surges when hitting compression stroke. Hand cranking shows quite good compression.

Any suggestion please? Is there something odd about starting engines like this - need to be very wet or very dry ? Temps around 18C today, dry weather.

tks
jp

Keith D · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:32 pm Post subject:

Hi jp,

It seems to me that your problem is electrical.

You have magneto ignition so anything that may possibly be wrong elsewhere with your electrics should not affect the engine running. What sort of spark do you have? Is it a nice lilac colour with a sharp crack as the spark occurs at the plug tip, or is it a sluggish yellow spark that could be easily extinguished when under compression or flooded?

Is it possible that you have timed the magneto one revolution out? Perhaps you have timed before TDC on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke.

Keith

peter scott · Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 7118 Location: Edinburgh

Try pouring petrol into the throat of the carb.

Peter
_________________
http://www.nostalgiatech.co.uk
1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

mikeC · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:52 pm Post subject:

Magnetos in good condition will provide a good spark at high speed, but can present a problem at low speed (ie starting!). Is the car in a suitable state to be towed? I have often found that a gentle tow-start provides instant running where all attempts to start on the starter or hand crank have failed.

Engage second gear at say 5-10mph and leave the engine turning and life appears! Don't be violent with the clutch, you're not bump-starting it.

jp928 · Joined: 07 Jun 2016 Posts: 249 Location: Australia

Thanks guys.
Car is not in a condition to be towed. Sparks are fat and blue. At TDC on flywheel with No 1 valves closed, rotor is just past No 1 in dist cap. Have sprayed starter fluid into cylinders, no luck. Lots of petrol in carb. Plug leads are in correct order, but even if they werent I should get at least the occasional pop or backfire.....

jp

47Jag · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:34 pm Post subject:

JP,

Have you tried spraying the starting fluid into the carb. while you are cranking the engine? Spraying into the plug holes is a waste of time and fluid.

Art

jp928 · Joined: 07 Jun 2016 Posts: 249 Location: Australia

I think we have done that.

Magneto timing - with No 1 valves closed, flywheel on SFA (Spark full advance) the points seem to be fully open no matter where the adv/ret lever is set. This has to be wrong doesnt it ? Should they be just on opening here?
Do I have to move the maggy drive pick up at the other end, or can I move the adv/ret lever clamp and adjust the position of the opening cam ? Never been inside a maggy before, as you may have guessed.

Since the distributor side seems to be timed OK for cylinders, can I adjust the points opening timing without messing up the plug firing side?

tks
jp

jp928 · Joined: 07 Jun 2016 Posts: 249 Location: Australia

Next. Have tried both extremes of the adjustment available at the maggy coupling, still not a pop. Damn starter pinion is jammed in flywheel again!

Pulled some of the spare engine maggy apart. Its adv/ret part is frozen solid.
Pulling the points plate out, it seems to me there is nothing locating the points in any particular location around the rotation - correct?
To me this means that the Adv/ret ring with the cam to open the points might need to have the adjustment ring slackened off, adjust the cam until just opening points at SFA, retighten the adjuster ring in the full advance position, and I might have a chance ..??

No - the cam ring's travel is restricted. Location of points need changing ? No - the points plate is keyed to the armature.

What now? Is the maggy drive coupling out of place in some way ?

tks
jp

jp928 · Joined: 07 Jun 2016 Posts: 249 Location: Australia

Well...doing this for a second time - seems there is a key I can easily hit that cancels everything I have just typed!
In the end it was ignition timing. The maggy drive flange nut was only hand tight, and the flange seats on a taper without a key....Took the maggy off the car and checked on the bench. The points were opening ~60-70d earlier than they should, so I moved the flange so it mated with the engine drive peg . with the points just about to open on No1, tightened as best I could. Refitted, and it started fairly readily, with a bit of hand choking and blipping.
There is a strange squeaking noise somewhere, but I need some more eyes and ears to locate that. Sounds like the muffler fitted will do nicely, not noisy at all.
Lesson - dont TRUST anything done previously, check EVERY nut and bolt for correct and tight.

jp

roverdriver · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:30 am Post subject:

Congratulations JP! I'm so pleased to hear that you have it running. Any chance of some movie footage, or at the very least a photo.

Your comment- Lesson - don't TRUST anything done previously, check EVERY nut and bolt for correct and tight is so true. When someone else has done work, check and re-check they might not have known what they were doing, or might inadvertently overlooked something.

I would love to own an early Rover, but alas, money and space preclude that, so I have to be satisfied with my 1950 Cyclops and a couple of other Rovers.

BTW I can't find you Cyclops story, could you post a link please?

Regards, Dane.
_________________
Dane- roverdriver but not a Viking.

47Jag · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:01 pm Post subject:

JP,

Well done you Very Happy

Art

jp928 · Joined: 07 Jun 2016 Posts: 249 Location: Australia

Bit hard assuming another has less knowledge of vintage car stuff than I do. Maybe I have a bit more rat like cunning, or just mechanical sympathy.

jp

jp928 · Joined: 07 Jun 2016 Posts: 249 Location: Australia

Now it starts reliably, oil pressure is a bit higher than I would like, but it hasnt run long enough to get fully hot through yet.
Next problem.
Seeing strange voltage readings (well over 10, and negative) at the battery and no sign of charge at ammeter. When I put meter across the dynamo I see reversed voltage - dynamo lead is -ve. My dynamo only has one lead, so I thought this would be positive, as this makes it look like the 3rd brush is internally grounded. See pic of dynamo brush end. Could it have been re-assembled wrong, with the output lead on the wrong brush?
Anybody else with an E418 able to advise how theirs is wired inside please?

Edit - put a lead on the other brush to check - same result - lead is negative, as though running to ground. Still seeing larger voltages than expected - in the tens....

tks
jp