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1927 Morris Cowley Flatnose
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bjacko



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 118
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject: 1927 Cowley Reply with quote

I think all metal lock nuts would be better. I don't know how nylon reacts with oil and grease, but hopefully the Loctite will hold anyway! The plain nuts with a quality spring washer would have held OK as they did in many installations on our cars.
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 1927 Cowley Reply with quote

bjacko wrote:
I think all metal lock nuts would be better. I don't know how nylon reacts with oil and grease, but hopefully the Loctite will hold anyway! The plain nuts with a quality spring washer would have held OK as they did in many installations on our cars.

ok
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a good reason to join an owners club. Which I have recently done.
A couple of phone calls to some committee members, a 200 mile round trip to Hampshire and I now have a usable centre main bearing cap.
Now, when these engines were manufactured the bearings seats would have been machined as a pair. Obviously my new bearing cap has never met the pedestal that it is now going to locate on, so made up a short mandrel to test for alignment.
Predictably the 2 halves didn't align perfectly.
This might not have been too much of a problem as the white metal bearings have to be line bored and/or scraped to obtain the final fit.
However, I decided to see if I could improve the alignment.
The first pic shows the 2 halves with the mandrel trying to line it all up.
It is impossible to obtain a parallel joint so something is wrong.



i need to remove the locating dowels and drill thourgh into my new cap so the next pics show how I proceeded:






Next I needed to plug the dowel holes in the cap oversize. This allowed me to re-drill in the correct position.


Make the plugs from mild steel








I have a small vertical mill I use for model making. I set it up level in the vice and drill and ream for the dowels.






I made and fit new dowels



Now the cap and mandrel fit the pedestal. the joint is paralell with no misalignment



Finally re drill the oil passage.

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Ocheye



Joined: 14 Apr 2014
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vary impressive
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Ocheye



Joined: 14 Apr 2014
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vary impressive
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Andy.
Have you got your Cowley back from the upholsterers yet?
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting thread even though I don't have the same engine my ford E93a is similar. I'm surprised you didn't make a steel main bearing cap as from the photos and what seems to be the norm with factory engines they have cast mains and rods. It's made me think to make a steel main centre cap for my ford especially as it is getting some period tuning parts. Don't know if they can white metal steel?
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1165
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On your Ford, the main bearings are shells. Only the big ends were white metal (Babbitt)

Rods can be obtained machined to take shells, however, from the various popular sources.

Not sure if machined rods, plus new shells, work out more, or less, expensive than finding someone who is skilled in whitemetaling, &getting existing rods re-metalled? Must depend on the state of the crank,eh?
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul fairall wrote:
Very interesting thread even though I don't have the same engine my ford E93a is similar. I'm surprised you didn't make a steel main bearing cap as from the photos and what seems to be the norm with factory engines they have cast mains and rods. It's made me think to make a steel main centre cap for my ford especially as it is getting some period tuning parts. Don't know if they can white metal steel?

Hello Paul and Alastair,
I dont think these engines are known for breaking. I think My engine has just had a careless owner who has done up the centre cap with an uneven amount of shims and so cracked it. Im sure an original iron cap is perfectly fine if assembled correctly.
The actual main bearings are turned brass shells lined with white metal. They are held in place laterally with a brass countersunk screw and are stopped from revolving by the centre shim stack.
I think it would be difficult adapt the rods and find a shell to fit this Morris engine. There is not much spare material to bore out around the big end.
Also the journals are quite wide compared with more modern designs.


Last edited by Miken on Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:41 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took my engine parts to the reconditioners yesterday for a rebore and to have all the crank/con rod bearings re-metalled.
The bad news is that they are very busy and so there is an 8-10 week wait.
So now ive got loads of time and I will turn my attention to other parts of the car that will benefit from some attention.
I dont want to get involved in a full blown renovation as Im really keen to get it back on the road.
The service sheets advise the owner to keep the steering box topped up with oil as it leaks out around the drop link shaft.
The solution would seem to be to fit an oil seal to prevent this happening.
A 1 " x 1 1/4" x 1/8" rotary shaft seal from "Bearing Boys " has arrived and today I altered the steering box cover plate to accept it.
This is a straightforward job to carry out on the lathe.
Set it up to run true and bore diameter to depth of 1/8" and thats it.
Alternatively, press the iron bush in further at the front by 1/8" and then face off flush however much ends up sticking out the back.

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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1165
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks to be a good solution. Sorry for the confusion over rods....I was referring to the Ford items.

Another solution to the leaky steering box issue could be, to fill it with liquid grease? This is a recommended practice I have come across for Dellow boxes.
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
On your Ford, the main bearings are shells. Only the big ends were white metal (Babbitt)

Rods can be obtained machined to take shells, however, from the various popular sources.

Not sure if machined rods, plus new shells, work out more, or less, expensive than finding someone who is skilled in whitemetaling, &getting existing rods re-metalled? Must depend on the state of the crank,eh?
Im still learning Very Happy
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Miken



Joined: 24 Dec 2012
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
Another solution to the leaky steering box issue could be, to fill it with liquid grease? This is a recommended practice I have come across for Dellow boxes.

I agree with you Alistair, On the Morris Minor I had before this car, I used to fill the steering box with the liquid grease recommended for Burman gearboxes on old motorcycles.
However, the Original Morris service sheets state again and again that grease of any sort is not to be used. Only oil. Also no grease to be used on any of the chassis lubrication points. Only oil.
Having said all that. Because im a bit of a knowitall and clearly know more about it than Morris , I will probably put the liquid grease in the steering box.
But If it wears out in 60 years time i'll blame you.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1165
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's fine..you can pop a note in my urn?

Obviously, liquid grease wasn't, and isn't, quite what its name implies?

The Morris advice, is similar to most other makes...indeed, the most recent I have come across is similar for Bedford TK/MK/MJ steering boxes!

The reason, I think, being that the oiling point [nipple.....although that can no longer be used as a descriptive term in educational circles!!]....looks so similar to a grease nipple, that a barely-skilled person doing servicing might simply assume they should squirt grease in, just as they have done with every other nipple they have come across?

The results are likely to be what I believe is known as hydraulic lock?

An interesting effect, known to rapidly change the colour of underwear?

Smile
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon that block is shot and you should put a 2 litre Zetec and type 9 box in it. But let me know when it's done as I would love to see it on those wheels and tyres Very Happy
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