classic car forum header
Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
How To Register     Posting Photographs     Privacy Policy     F/book facebook.com/oldclassiccar

Ford Popular 103e new to me
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Ford
Author Message
Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:18 pm    Post subject: Ford Popular 103e new to me Reply with quote

Hallo to all here, new member to this forum since buying a ford pop two weeks ago. Placed a bid on eBay, went off to our house in France for a couple of days, not expecting to get it and did. Then I was thinking where will I keep it. So I drove it back from Ashford in Kent to Gravesend, around 40 miles, fortunately I applied some rainex to the screen before leaving and it was a good decision as it chucked it down most of the way back and the wiper didn't work. It turned out to be the vacuum pipe had come off and it also caused a flat spot on pulling away, now fixed. The interior mirror fell off so I had to hold in my hand occasionally to have a squint to the rear. Anyway made it home and after a couple of days I cleared some space in my work garage to tuck it up. Having trouble with earthing with the indicators and today I did a check with a new electronic flasher unit wired to a loose light unit and it works so some rewiring required. Long term I will be dealing with the rust on the drivers side B post, near side A post and fit a new vinyl roof. At some point a complete respray, update the brakes with hydraulic wheel cylinders on the rear, keeping the drums and discs on the front. Woodhead conversion to upright shocks and pan hard rods.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20416
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum Paul Smile sounds like the 103E is proving to be an entertaining buy already.

Is the braking system already modified?

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick wrote:
Welcome to the forum Paul Smile sounds like the 103E is proving to be an entertaining buy already.

Is the braking system already modified?

RJ
character building I'd say. No the brakes are standard as far as I know. Been reading a thread on another forum about a fella in Holland rebuilding a 1948 Anglia, he had drums all round with hydraulic wheel cylinders, thinking to go the same way, probably will get away without a servo. Discs most definitely need a servo.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rene



Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Paul,probably i am the guy from Holland Very Happy
After the hydraulic conversion i made discs at the front without a servo,i used volvo 140 dics and calipers and a brake pump from VW early bus.
Worked fine but a servo would have worked better.
René
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rene wrote:
Hi Paul,probably i am the guy from Holland Very Happy
After the hydraulic conversion i made discs at the front without a servo,i used volvo 140 dics and calipers and a brake pump from VW early bus.
Worked fine but a servo would have worked better.
René
Hi Rene, I enjoyed reading about your build. If I change the engine I will go for discs and a servo but for now I will keep the drums. Can you remember which wheel cylinder you used. I hope you are ok with me messaging you with any questions I might have as I go along.

Being new to the 103 I would like to know what oil to use in the engine.


Last edited by Paul fairall on Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20416
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul fairall wrote:
...
Being new to the 103 I would like to know what oil to use in the engine.


One of the classic 20/50s will work fine.

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Rick, oil pressure cold is 50psi dropping to 20psi driving when warm and 10psi on tick over, does that seem OK to you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1165
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that is about right...any sort of pressure reading is good for a Ford sidevalve!

http://www.classic-oils.net/Classic-Oils-Heritage-20W50

Can I suggest the above stuff?

It has a high[er] zinc content, which most if not all, older engine designs [pre-1970?] were intended to run on. Helps prevent wear due to 'hammer' of various bits like cam followers, etc....

Plus, it is cheap.

The 10hp sidevalve Ford engine originally would have used straight 30 grade oil.

What you don't want, is modern 20/50 [or any grade, for that matter] oils, as the 10hp Ford engine doesn't have a filtration system as such [well, house bricks get filtered out, at least!]

What is not wanted is an oil which scours the internals, and keeps the crud in suspension....the crud needs to drop out of the oil into the sump bottom.

Change the oil frequently if only using for short journeys, now & then.....every 1000 miles perhaps?

It will probably use oil anyway, so check the dipstick before every usage.

Don't forget to check the gearbox oil every month as well...there is a dipstick [or, should be] on the right side of the box. Gearbox oil is a 'loss' system, as it is meant to leak out of the gearbox rear, to lubricate the one & only universal joint on the propshaft....inside the torque tube.

Why are you bothering to modify the brakes?

The Ford mechanical system...when correctly set up, is very effective. Probably more so than a hydraulic system.

After all, the biggest problem with hydraulic brakes is.....keeping the fluid inside, and not absorbing water.

If a vehicle isn't used regularly, then seals can distort or harden, and brake fluid can become contaminated. Hence, fluid gets out....much like losing the magic smoke from anything 'electrical?'

Whatever is done, it is unwise to substitute better 'braking efficiency' for 'driver skill'.

The 103E [or indeed, any post WW2 Ford] brakes were as good as they get.....again, if properly set up.

They are fully compensated on the 103E Pop....plus, by keeping to standard, there are no issues with pedals, or siting of hydraulic cylinders.

Just get out of the habit of trying to read the name of the firm who made the number plate of the vehicle in front?

I think it was Rick, at some distant past, who made the observation that pre-1970 brakes were designed to be effective using asbestos linings......and that the modern type s of lining material are simply unsuited for older braking systems. IE, probably too hard?

There is/was a firm near Leeds [IIRC] who offer lining materials more suited to the designs of earlier brakes, which restore their performances as per times past. Maybe someone could remind me of the firm concerned?

Panhard rods, both front & rear, are a definite plus....very easily made.

Worthwhile pulling the wooden floors up, and boxing in the chassis rails from the gearbox X-member towards the rear.....adds stiffness, although not strictly necessary for a saloon.

Replace the vacuum wiper system, with a small electric wiper motor up above the windscreen......I have used old VW polo rear window wiper motors, very compact.

Worthwhile going to 12 volts......the starter is happy with 12 volts....and moving the dynamo [or, even, changing to a small alternator...Japanese one's are very compact].....to mount alongside the engine, instead of on top....helps. SmallFordSpares sell an engine bearer modified to do this.

Or, even, changing the engine for a 100E engine..which has a in-built water pump, as well as better induction breathing. [Gearbox needs a hole cutting for the 100E starter motor bendix to poke through]

For the 10 hp engine, the drive belts are the old fashioned, large size one's, commonly seen today on combine harvesters.

If a more modern dynamo or alternator is wanted...then the bottom engine pulley [crankshaft] of the 10 hp engine needs changing too.....the 100E crankshaft pulley fits [has the modern pulley width].....but watch out as it is also part of the front oil seal.....so needs to be a good fit to the cork or rope seals.


Rather than spending time & effort messing with brakes, why not investigate making an external oil filter system for the engine?

An Aquaplane valve chest cover can be had with the appropriate fittings, and a modern spin-on oil filter can be remotely mounted. This can be achieved discretely, & will do much to improve engine life.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20416
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following on from Alastair's comments, it was possible to buy a basic bypass oil filter arrangement for the E93A engine (as fitted to the 103E Pop) back in the day, although the canister filters were getting a bit scarce last time I checked. There's probably a modern alternative available however.

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
Yes, that is about right...any sort of pressure reading is good for a Ford sidevalve!

http://www.classic-oils.net/Classic-Oils-Heritage-20W50

Can I suggest the above stuff?

It has a high[er] zinc content, which most if not all, older engine designs [pre-1970?] were intended to run on. Helps prevent wear due to 'hammer' of various bits like cam followers, etc....

Plus, it is cheap.

The 10hp sidevalve Ford engine originally would have used straight 30 grade oil.

What you don't want, is modern 20/50 [or any grade, for that matter] oils, as the 10hp Ford engine doesn't have a filtration system as such [well, house bricks get filtered out, at least!]

What is not wanted is an oil which scours the internals, and keeps the crud in suspension....the crud needs to drop out of the oil into the sump bottom.

Change the oil frequently if only using for short journeys, now & then.....every 1000 miles perhaps?

It will probably use oil anyway, so check the dipstick before every usage.

Don't forget to check the gearbox oil every month as well...there is a dipstick [or, should be] on the right side of the box. Gearbox oil is a 'loss' system, as it is meant to leak out of the gearbox rear, to lubricate the one & only universal joint on the propshaft....inside the torque tube.

Why are you bothering to modify the brakes?

The Ford mechanical system...when correctly set up, is very effective. Probably more so than a hydraulic system.

After all, the biggest problem with hydraulic brakes is.....keeping the fluid inside, and not absorbing water.

If a vehicle isn't used regularly, then seals can distort or harden, and brake fluid can become contaminated. Hence, fluid gets out....much like losing the magic smoke from anything 'electrical?'

Whatever is done, it is unwise to substitute better 'braking efficiency' for 'driver skill'.

The 103E [or indeed, any post WW2 Ford] brakes were as good as they get.....again, if properly set up.

They are fully compensated on the 103E Pop....plus, by keeping to standard, there are no issues with pedals, or siting of hydraulic cylinders.

Just get out of the habit of trying to read the name of the firm who made the number plate of the vehicle in front?

I think it was Rick, at some distant past, who made the observation that pre-1970 brakes were designed to be effective using asbestos linings......and that the modern type s of lining material are simply unsuited for older braking systems. IE, probably too hard?

There is/was a firm near Leeds [IIRC] who offer lining materials more suited to the designs of earlier brakes, which restore their performances as per times past. Maybe someone could remind me of the firm concerned?

Panhard rods, both front & rear, are a definite plus....very easily made.

Worthwhile pulling the wooden floors up, and boxing in the chassis rails from the gearbox X-member towards the rear.....adds stiffness, although not strictly necessary for a saloon.

Replace the vacuum wiper system, with a small electric wiper motor up above the windscreen......I have used old VW polo rear window wiper motors, very compact.

Worthwhile going to 12 volts......the starter is happy with 12 volts....and moving the dynamo [or, even, changing to a small alternator...Japanese one's are very compact].....to mount alongside the engine, instead of on top....helps. SmallFordSpares sell an engine bearer modified to do this.

Or, even, changing the engine for a 100E engine..which has a in-built water pump, as well as better induction breathing. [Gearbox needs a hole cutting for the 100E starter motor bendix to poke through]

For the 10 hp engine, the drive belts are the old fashioned, large size one's, commonly seen today on combine harvesters.

If a more modern dynamo or alternator is wanted...then the bottom engine pulley [crankshaft] of the 10 hp engine needs changing too.....the 100E crankshaft pulley fits [has the modern pulley width].....but watch out as it is also part of the front oil seal.....so needs to be a good fit to the cork or rope seals.


Rather than spending time & effort messing with brakes, why not investigate making an external oil filter system for the engine?

An Aquaplane valve chest cover can be had with the appropriate fittings, and a modern spin-on oil filter can be remotely mounted. This can be achieved discretely, & will do much to improve engine life.
thanks that's all good information, just thinking ahead to an engine change, possibly 1300 X flow. Actually I've only driven it the 40 miles home and after a modern vehicle the brake pedal needed standing on. As I've said my first job is repairing the a and b posts, all being well fitting a new roof or if not all well repairing the metal of the roof. Paint the car and keep the outside standard. This will be in the spring as I don't have room to get around the car in the garage. Body repairs will be done outside in good weather and then sent to paint after. I may well keep it as standard allbeit with an oil filter. The wiper works surprisingly well now that the pipe is connected and after driving without it with rainex on the screen I don't mind keeping it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1165
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello...an engine change to something like a X-flow [if one can be had, no longer cheap-as-chipz].....will inevitably mean a complete change of drive system too.

Doubtless a gearbox to match, then a Hardy-Spicer-type propshaft to a much later Ford back axle, probably either Escort or 105E Anglia, depending [width issues at this point].

Then one would need to generate a hydraulic brake system.

Chassis would definitely need boxing in....rear springs altered, [coils and shocks to suit]...plus, trailing arms [and panhard] to locate it.

The front axle could remain, but might be better sourcing something like the VAuxhall Viva [HA?} front suspension complete...? This was once the standard route when rodding a Pop.

A simple engine swap becomes very much a labour of love....hence why I suggested, at the most, fitting a 100E sidevalve engine [from the Anglias/Prefects etc of the mid to late 1950's]

It is not surprising you had braking problems on the first drive back..there is no telling whether the brakes were even remotely properly set up.

You could do worse than joining the FSOC [Ford Sidevalve Owners Club]...they are a primary source of spares..nearly all of which can be obtained.

A good trade source is SmallFordSpares [I mentioned earlier].

If it were me, I would spend some time fettling the engine & running gear first....all very simple, lie a No.11 Meccano set.

Then worry about the body?

Once the floors are up, access is amazing.

Getting hold of the facsimile of the Ford garage manual is also a must-do.

If you are keeping it 'original' instead of rodding it....I suggest buying/begging soonest, a rear hub puller.

These come in various shapes [and used to be sold in go-faster shops, even up to the 1970's!]...but one is an essential tool for anything Ford Poppish. Without it, you'll not be able to access the rear brakes, or check the rear bearings for wear. In fact, if keeping standard, I recommend the rear hubs being pulled [don't forget to back the brakes off first]....and teh end of hte axle casing being examined.

This will mean, standing on your head.

What you'll be looking for, are signs of wear at the top, and underneath, the actual axle casing [tube].

There will be few signs of wear on either side.......all will be bottom, and top.

Reason is, the rear wheel bearings actually run on the outside of the axle casing. If the casing is worn, the bearings will 'flop' a bit. This will place bending forces on the half shaft.
This is the major reason for half shafts snapping.

To repair a half shaft means splitting the axle in half.

Also, if a half shaft fails..there isn't much left holding the entire wheel/hub onto the car.

Can be a bit of a let down at speed.

The repair for a worn axle casing in the 1950's was simply, buying a new one....they weren't at all dear at the time.

Nowadays, that is not the case.

There are kits available, which allow one to re-sleeve the axle casing, and fit new, different sized bearings.

Available from FSOC or SmallFordSpares...around £160 for a complete kit,including glue.

There are other repair types...which involve engineering firms and stuff...and will all cost more than the kits.

A known problem!

Been there, done that, had problems, with my Dellow.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rene



Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@alistairq..........you are right on the spot.
I made the chance to a kent engine from a cortina,had to do the hydraulic conversion of the brakes,rear axle,panhard rods and coilovers front and back.
The engine swap means also a new firewall put more backwarts,pedalbox from cortina and on,and on,and on..............
The total costs are way more as the car was worth and that is even i did all the work myself low budget with mostly used parts.
Looking back i do not regret it,it was my hobby car,now i have sold it a while ago(loosing money)and have bought a '29 model A ford,this will kept original with the poor brakes.........and i like it Very Happy
Do as you like with the Pop,but i will say keep it original Wink
René
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rene wrote:
@alistairq..........you are right on the spot.
I made the chance to a kent engine from a cortina,had to do the hydraulic conversion of the brakes,rear axle,panhard rods and coilovers front and back.
The engine swap means also a new firewall put more backwarts,pedalbox from cortina and on,and on,and on..............
The total costs are way more as the car was worth and that is even i did all the work myself low budget with mostly used parts.
Looking back i do not regret it,it was my hobby car,now i have sold it a while ago(loosing money)and have bought a '29 model A ford,this will kept original with the poor brakes.........and i like it Very Happy
Do as you like with the Pop,but i will say keep it original Wink
René
i have to admit you are both right. I have for some time now dreamed of buying a pop and hotroding it after seeing some amazing pops at a rod meet every month not far from me. Some of these cars are to an incredible standard, paint jobs costing £8-10,000, complete cars costing in excess of £30k. I didn't plan to go that far but even swapping the engine for a xflow I now think will devalue the car and I'm better to spend my money on restoring the car as standard. Would a 100e engine be in keeping?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rick
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20416
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 100E is more in keeping, but ... personally, and this is just me, I'd run it as standard for a while to see if I even liked it. Then, I'd look at period tuning mods if necessary, eg fitting 8hp head to the 10hp motor, or maybe unearthing some old Aquaplane kit to bolt on, a set of 15" Ballamy wheels, and so on. That'd be a fun way to go with it - IMO naturally Smile

RJ
_________________
Rick (OCC Admin)
Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick wrote:
A 100E is more in keeping, but ... personally, and this is just me, I'd run it as standard for a while to see if I even liked it. Then, I'd look at period tuning mods if necessary, eg fitting 8hp head to the 10hp motor, or maybe unearthing some old Aquaplane kit to bolt on, a set of 15" Ballamy wheels, and so on. That'd be a fun way to go with it - IMO naturally Smile

RJ
the chap I bought it from said someone told him it was an 8hp motor. How can I tell what it is. I know nothing about this car yet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration. Forum Index -> Ford All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 1 of 8

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum T&C


php BB powered © php BB Grp.