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Ford Popular 103e new to me
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looking on wiki at the side valve and it says the 1172 is 10hp. Is that correct, the Internet isn't always right.
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Rene



Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul fairall wrote:
Just looking on wiki at the side valve and it says the 1172 is 10hp. Is that correct, the Internet isn't always right.

This time the interweb is right,a 8hp is almost a 1000cc
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47Jag



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 1458
Location: Bothwell, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 10hp is mere a taxation rating. The government of the day introduced a horsepower rating for taxation purposes (something along the lines of today's emission tax). The RAC came up with a formula which all engines were rated by and taxed accordingly.
http://www.designchambers.com/wolfhound/wolfhoundRACHP.htm
The actual brake horsepower of an 1172cc Ford would be around 30bhp.

Art
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peterwpg



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2223
Location: New Brunswick. Canada

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The horsepower rating for tax purposes, was calculated by the diameter of the piston.

A ridiculous idea dreamt up by politicians who were stealing the village idiot's job.

Once the system was abolished, Ford, and much later BMC, went for over square engines, i.e short stroke. An F1 engine has a stroke of not much more than 1.5 inches.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1086
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference between the 8hp & 10hp Ford sidevalve engines is primarily the size of the cylinder bore.
The 8hp is 933cc, producing about 23bhp @4000 rpm.
The 10hp is 1172cc, producing about 30bhp @4000 rpm.
Fitting the 8hp head to the 10hp block raises the compression ratio a bit, but may be counter productive with regards to breathing.

The simplest way to find out what size engine has been fitted is to remove the cylinder head and measure a cyl bore.
The 1172cc block has a 2 1/2 inch bore, the 8hp has approx 2 1/4 inch bore.

Aquaplane heads and manifolds are available new from SmallFordSpares.

The Aquaplane exhaust manifold is worth having, and they do a matching inlet for twin SUs.
Almost no parts are interchangeable between 10hp engines, and 100E engines, despite being the same capacity.
The 100E engine produces around 36bhp.

My old tuned 10hp motor that I fitted to my old Cannon trials car produced about 50 bhp at the wheels, according to Bogg Bros rolling road.
It got some serious block relieving that helped.
The biggest drawback to the sidevalve engines producing more power is the very restricted breathing.
Conventional methods of raising compression ratios create more restrictions.
IMHO the simplest way to tune them is to supercharge.
Aim for low end torque rather than top end bhp, for a road car.
Sidevalve engines are better at slogging than screaming.

Be careful of fitting 15 inch wheels. The standard final drive ratio is about 5 1/2 to 1.
Standard wheel diameter is 17 inch.
To run 15 inchers (assuming you can find any, they are rare) you would need to fit one of the special lower ratios .
Otherwise you'll be flat out at 45mph.
Ford Prefects ran 16 inch wheels as standard, because they were much heavier.
16inch wheels fitted with 175/80x16 (taxi) tyres work well, as they have the same rolling radius as 4.50x17 crossplies. More grip too.

All food for thought?

Sidevalve Fords are a whole different ball game, compared to their competitors of the day.
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes indeed, plenty to think about. With no water pump, can all this extra horse power cause over heating.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1086
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not necessarily. Depends how much you thrash the engine. Engines don't sit there producing all that potential horse power all the time.

A 500 bhp engine probably produces no more bhp when setting off, than an Austin Seven does at peak revs.

Ford offered a separate water 'pump' [for hotter climates!] as an extra.

This bolts low down on the right side[may need a 'water pump' engine bearer?]...and a longer drive belt, it plumbs into the bottom hose.

However, it is a heavy cast iron thing. Aquaplane also offer similar, but in alloy so is lighter.

Be aware, like most 'water pumps' these do not actually pump fluids...they simply 'push stuff around'.

Whilst 2nd hand pumps are available now & again, a new one is costly.

An option is to purchase and fit one of the [new?] electric water pumps like those below [although they may be had cheaper elsewhere?]
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/water-pumps

These can be kept running after the engine has been turned off...thus allowing the coolant to dissipate latent heat...something a normal engine doesn't do?

At this stage, one ought to be thinking about converting to 12 volt electrics all round.

[It is possible, using a modern technology jelly battery, to simply apply 12 volts to the starter motor..keeping the rest on 6 volts, for originality?]

The original cooling system is adequate for normal use....just be prepared to check & top up on a daily basis, if using the car every day?

Also, be careful what type anti freeze to use.

Do not use modern, OAT antifreeze.....get hold of the basic old fashioned stuff....the modern stuff eats gaskets and brass and stuff.
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3943
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
My Volvo 440 had an auxilliary electric water pump which switched on when you turned off the engine, this was in order to cool the engine down more evenly rather than alllowing the heat to gather in the alloy head, once the temp sensor registered a low enough temp it switched it off.
I suspect there were other cars with alloy heads and iron blocks which had a similar set up.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1086
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are these volvo electric pumps self-contained? Could they be hoicked off a scrapper for other purposes?
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3943
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
Yes, it is item 35 on here (plus clips and wiring etc).

http://s1322.photobucket.com/user/jamesy12345/media/cooling1_zpsd699affb.jpg.html

Hose connection would need modifying if you are fitting to something that normally has thermo syphon.
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Bristols should always come in pairs.

Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1086
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Item 55 perhaps? Smile

I have just purchased a similar item off the fleebay, supposedly for a BMW....on the basis it has flares on the pipe ends rather than straight or weird ends...better for hoses to be attached?

For a thermo-syphon system, the pump goes into the bottom hose.

There ought to be a by-pass passage either in, or around, the pump, in case of pump failure?

{ I think the original Ford standalone item has one...must check]
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3943
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
Yes it is 55, I should have zoomed a bit to check the number.
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Bristols should always come in pairs.

Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10
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ka



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 600
Location: Orkney.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can agree with a great deal printed here. I run an after market electric pump in the bottom hose, but have yet to fit a fan for use in traffic; as the traffic up here usually consists of a heard of sheep/cattle transferring from field to field across the road it is yet to be an issue. But then it was not an issue when I lived in Nottingham.
To get an extra bit of 'pep'. fit the 8hp head, ups the compression ratio and gives more torque. I have gone a bit more extreme, but the head will give a noticeable change.
One of my engines was relieved, skimmed, big inlet valves, flowed and ported, twin carbs, tuned exhaust, tweaky cam and turned out 50bhp, but little torque.
If you really want to get more power, follow the 5o's after market trend, and obtain an OHIV conversion. At least a 10bhp increase, with tuning potential of around 75.
Good luck.
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Better three than four.
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Paul fairall



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 431
Location: North west Kent

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been laid up with man flu and a chest infection for three weeks and still not right now. At the same time I got sick I had stripped out my bathroom and only managed to fit a shower tray and build a third wall for the cubicle. Have now tiled it and done some of the plumbing but run out of puff fairly quickly and need a lay down. The pop hasn't been on my mind much due to this. I did start it last week and took a look at the engine number, it appears to have a factory replacement engine with a preceding letter R, but couldn't see much else stamped. The chap I bought it from said the previous owner said it was 8hp, at the time I didn't know anything about it. Not sure where to go with it if that's the case.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1086
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drain coolant, take head off [remove dynamo first]...measure bores.

That will tell you whether you have an 8hp or 10hp engine....for sure.

If an 8hp, then buying a 10hp block and bits isn't overly expensive...but it will likely need a 're-build', unless you're very lucky.

Join Ford Sidevalve Owner's Club toot sweet.....they have a good stores set-up...

The engine is easy to swap...and even if you don't get a 10 hp head, the one you have will fit & do.

So, really, it's all about stripping & measuring...?
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