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Donald Sessions DWS jacking handle - Bakelite knobs
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greenbeam



Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Posts: 85
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Donald Sessions DWS jacking handle - Bakelite knobs Reply with quote

Hi all,
My 1935 Armstrong Siddeley has the DWS jacking system with inbuilt jacks on the chassis of the car. I believe these jacks were also used on Rolls Royce and Lagonda, and possibly other British cars of the '30s.

The jack handle is a T shaped thing with a swivelling bakelite knob at each end of the top of the T. Of course, the bakelite knobs are broken.

First, a long shot, any chance someone has a spare handle with intact knobs they would consider parting with?

Now the more likely scenario, anyone have ideas how to replace or repair the handles?

Cheers,
Paul.
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Swindon, Wilts.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
No connection, but these people might know.
http://www.fiennes.co.uk/Parts/Catalogue/A/AA/DWS-Hydraulic-Jacks

If you can't get Bakelite, lathe turned, polished wood might look good.

Any photos to show how they are fitted.

Are they like these.
http://commercial-motor.cdn.netcopy.co.uk/issues/29th-september-1931/50.jpg?size=200x&token=ff3686e2f04f45abb61e072a13d91761

Sorry about the definition I had to ctrl+ to get it big enough to see
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greenbeam



Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Posts: 85
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Penman, yes, that's the sort of thing in the second link, but nothing so extravagant as hydraulically operated like the first link Wink. I've taken a couple of photos and a scan of an Armstrong Siddeley owners manual to help show what I'm trying to fix.

The owners manual:


The whole handle assembly:


The handle section with what's left of the knobs:


And a close-up of one of the broken knobs:


Finally, the DWS plaque on the centre of the handle:


Cheers,
Paul.
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22429
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the type, Daimlers have them as well.

3D printing may be another avenue to explore, I know people are reproducing switch knobs this way, so scaling up slightly wouldn't be an issue. The cost for a low-volume item such as this may be the stumbling block however ...

RJ
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greenbeam



Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Posts: 85
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Rick,
1) Not sure I can see 'economy of scale' in a run of 'DWS knobs'! Smile
2) I'm not sure how they fitted the knobs in the first place. The mounting pin is quite substantial, doesn't look like a rivet hammered over cold. And the pin would have to be 'cast' into the centre of the knob.

Hopefully some DWS guru steps forward.....

Cheers,
Paul.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you [we?] know what the knobs should look like?

Especially dimensions and stuff?

If so, maybe a knob can be turned out of wood, or shaped out of plaster, a silicon mould taken off it...to be attached to the existing remains, somehow....and an acrylic casting resin used to remake the knob?

That would save fixing it?
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greenbeam



Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Posts: 85
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only guess on the shape and dimensions from the diagram in the owner's manual, and scaled from the remains on the handle I have. Could turn up from wood, or 3D print, but it's not clear to me how they are fitted to the handle - the pins in the handle now look to have very heavy rounded rivets on the handle, not sure how you'd flare them out without heat or lots of force.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible the knobs have/had a removable centre piece?

When fitting, this would allow access of an anvil, for the rivetted end to be formed using a press of some sort?

What I was suggesting was, to repair what is still there?

By making a silicon rubber mould, and allowing the acrylic to bond to the remains of the existing knob?

Assuming you can remove the entire handle mechanism?

Otherwise its, new pin, self-made knob, with removable centre cap, and maybe a machine screw to retain knob?
Best of luck!

Smile
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trampintransit



Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 166
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd definitely be tempted to find a wood turner... If not.... 3D printing and then painted to age?
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll see if I can get a photo of a complete (good) handle for reference.

RJ
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UmTumTiddly



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 35
Location: Ringwood, New Forest.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: DWS Reply with quote

Back in the '70's I owned a 1935 AS 12/6 Sports Coupe ("The car for daughters of gentlemen!") which had the DWS jacking system fitted (one scissor jack each side on the rear axle and one in the centre of the front beam axle - fabulous system BTW and wish cars of today used something similar!).

I seem to recall that the the 'rivets' attaching the bakelite knobs to the handle were open to view so that the top of the rivets were visible. In other words, they were recessed into the handle and not covered or 'captured.'

I found this link which may prove useful, at least in determining the shape of the knobs. Rather coincidentaly the 'bruce' selling the stuff gives his location as Australia! He may still have the items for sale? Good luck...
http://www.triple-mregister.org/forums/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=9236

P.S. Have you contacted the UK Armstrong Siddeley Owners' Club? They have a very active membership and forum and someone would be able to help.
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greenbeam



Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Posts: 85
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, no laughing now.....

I have solved this problem! I bought another 1935 17HP Siddeley with an intact jack handle!

Seriously, I came across another car that is about 100 chassis numbers earlier than my Sports Saloon that is suitable for spares, and it came with an intact DWS jack handle!

By this time, I had drilled out the rivets and made drawings of what I thought the handles should be to have them remade.

Regards,
Paul.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather pricey..

https://tinyurl.com/y8hza662

Peter
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winchman



Joined: 21 Feb 2014
Posts: 235
Location: Merseyside

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter scott wrote:
Rather pricey..

https://tinyurl.com/y8hza662

Peter

I know but easier than making them, I would just use wood
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s.e.charles



Joined: 27 Apr 2018
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yet more moderately priced than a complete car
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