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Gear oil confusion EP. GL4. GL5 etc
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colwyn500



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 1745
Location: Nairn, Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Gear oil confusion EP. GL4. GL5 etc Reply with quote

I have fitted a replacement gearbox to my Fiat 500, which is from a later model which has synchromesh fitted. The manufacturer recommendation is to use a non-EP gear oil to protect against erosion of the synchro rings and cones, ideally a multigrade somewhere in the range SAE 75-90.

It seems impossible to find a gear oil which is easily available that doesn't have some sort of EP additive. Although GL5 is stated by some to indicate that it has a lot of additives, there are GL5 oils that aren't prefixed "EP". I bought some "Comma" oil that was prefixed "SX" but it seemd as thin as water and is clearly (pun intended) intended for modern gearboxes. Some people state that GL4 means there are no or fewer additives but the ones I have found are all "EP".

If that distinctive gear-oil pong indicates the presence of the EP additive, I can't find a non-EP oil. I ended up buying some "miracle" US-made, Lucas gear-oil which didn't have the EP nomenclature, but on opening it I find it has the strongest smell of any I have experienced.

Has anyone got any suggestions please for an appropriate oil that can be bought in a real shop in the UK? Very Happy
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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1252
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GL4 is quite safe and most recent GL5's are. Smith & Allen and others do GL4 and I always use it although have used GL5 without ill-effect
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1948
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ricambio.co.uk/178-oils--fluids/627-gearbox--power-steering-oil/453-gearbox-oil-tutela-zc90-1ltr-80w-90-





According to more expert small FIAT enthusiasts, the above is the 'proper' stuff.
[I presume you have a 126 gearbox fitted?]

https://www.classic-oils.net/Oils-by-Application-and-Type/Transmission-and-Gear-Oils/

Above is the lead page for various types of transmission oils....to give a wider choice? Good firm to deal with too. [IMHO, no axes to grind]
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colwyn500



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 1745
Location: Nairn, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Alastair, that is the right stuff; it just annoys me that I can't get it locally.
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nickjaxe



Joined: 14 Jun 2013
Posts: 36
Location: North Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Far as I know GL4 is the old school gear oil that we used to use un the 60s 70s ect....thats what I was told my old 70s Landrover would be ok with and the brass and bronze internal would be fine with.

The book spec was EP90...but as you the numbers have changed.

Nick.
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richardlw



Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 138

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not see this when first posted, but here is a detailed response to your basic question. (download the entire paper).
http://www.widman.biz/Corvair/English/Links/Transaxle.html

In short, if it says GL-5 on it, don't use it in synchronizers. Most of our older cars will love a GL-4 75W-90. I've moved my 1960 Corvair to it, and have put it in my Dauphine. There are also some new oils on the market that are GL-4+ with non Sulfur/phos additives, using magnesium or calcium sulfonate as EP agents. These are excellent.
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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting link but things have moved on since then (2009). As GL4 is still readily available I will play safe and use it even though GL5 may now be OK
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richardlw



Joined: 08 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the principles and product technology is updated as of 2017, but I have not gone back and tried to study the US market offerings since 2009. The GL-4 and GL-4+ are a lot more available now, since they are required by car makers and even Volvo and Mack trucks.
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MrWhite



Joined: 09 May 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 1963 Super Minx says on the chassis plate that the Gearbox oil should be; Xp100 30. I know I am going back tp 1963 information but does anyone know what this means? Also, fromwhat has been said above I am assuming GL4 would be fine, maybe even GL5, likely from a classic range of oil rather than the same designed for modern cars?
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richardlw



Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 138

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would most likely refer to an EP gear oil of the time (some brands used XP for eXtreme Pressure instead of EP), (actually prior to current additives and API classifications), and a viscosity of 100 cSt at 40ÂșC (which today would be called ISO 100), or SAE 30 on the engine scale, which is an ISO 100 on the industrial scale.

So what does that translate to in today's terms?
SAE 75W-90 on the SAE gear oil scale, with GL-4 or GL-4+ being the best EP choice for the metals composition.
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MrWhite



Joined: 09 May 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, excellent reply, sounds like you really know your stuff, thanks for that Smile
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richardlw



Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 138

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrWhite wrote:
Wow, excellent reply, sounds like you really know your stuff, thanks for that Smile


Been restoring cars for 51 years, teaching auto mechanics for 47, and doing industrial lubrication and filtration audits along with University Tribology classes for 21 years.

Funny what you end up learning in life.
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trampintransit



Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 166
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any questions like this...I cannot recommend more highly than to speak to Guy at Classic oils of Aylesbury. He will have whatever you need ...

https://www.classic-oils.net/
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