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Super Minx clutch losing pressure
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TriciaS



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterwpg wrote:
Reply to Tricia's last post.

On any correctly working clutch, (hydraulics), the design of the master/slave/pedal travel/ Clutch lever - Bearing - Plate, Cover, Flywheel, Gearbox-bellhousing are such that the clutch pedal can go to 100% travel without the clutch cover mechanism being pushed too far (throw out). Excess throwout can/will damage the clutch and put unwanted lateral pressure on the crankshaft.

If any one of these items is the wrong one, then the "ideal" configuration of the various items may be impossible and or damaging.

P.S Tricia. on a very early post, you described the vehicle as having "overdrive".... is that correct?

Yes the car has overdrive, I am afraid I still do not understand throw out but as the car worked ok at test drive I can't see that any clutch parts were fitted wrongly, I only think maybe you mean I have fitted the wrong slave which is why we fitted the old one back in at one point but it did not make any difference, I am starting to believe that the crank washers must be the problem going by farmer Johns post and will get that sorted before taking it for it's m.o.t, I have ordered a micrometer so as I will be able to measure accurately the washers when they come out and then know what size they had fitted when supposedly overhauling engine to know if to fit +5 or +10 and hope thy haven't already gone to the limit
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peterwpg



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2223
Location: New Brunswick. Canada

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Tricia. It is becoming more and more obvious that you have a fair to good understanding of the mechanics and the tenacity to stay with the diversity of comments with regard to your vehicle.

I know from experience that the way a clutch works can sometimes be a little confusing, that is because when the slave cylinder pushes out, the thrust bearing is being pushed toward the flywheel. A simple assumption may be that this is causing the clutch plate to be squeezed between the clutch cover and the flywheel. This, of course, is incorrect as depressing the clutch decreases the pressure on the clutch plate and allows the gearbox to stop rotating, although the engine and flywheel still rotates.

The change of force occurs because of the design of the clutch cover and if you look at the drawing( I removed the link because it was not that good) you will see that as the thrust bearing moves forward it causes the outer part of the clutch cover to move away from the flywheel and the engine is no longer firmly connected to the gearbox.

The "throwout", a term that is causing you the most confusion, is the amount of movement applied to the clutch cover. If it is excessive then the clutch cover can be damaged because it is only designed to cope with a small amount of movement.

Whether it be a Hillman ,an Austin, Ferrari or Fiat, if it has a clutch, the physics are the same.

There is no substitute for "in the flesh" examples of how things work.

I haven't pursued "motor cars - gearboxes - clutches" etc etc on Google but I would hazard a guess that somewhere on the WWW there are ample graphics of how things work.

Returning to recent posts, I would also vote in favour of getting the vehicle to a garage. Perhaps be patient and see what Rick comes up with, he knows a lot of people....

To be honest, if I was still in the UK I think I would have already jumped in the car and driven down to see your vehicle in the flesh.

Best regards

Peter L

[/img]
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TriciaS



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterwpg wrote:
Hello Tricia. It is becoming more and more obvious that you have a fair to good understanding of the mechanics and the tenacity to stay with the diversity of comments with regard to your vehicle.

I know from experience that the way a clutch works can sometimes be a little confusing, that is because when the slave cylinder pushes out, the thrust bearing is being pushed toward the flywheel. A simple assumption may be that this is causing the clutch plate to be squeezed between the clutch cover and the flywheel. This, of course, is incorrect as depressing the clutch decreases the pressure on the clutch plate and allows the gearbox to stop rotating, although the engine and flywheel still rotates.

The change of force occurs because of the design of the clutch cover and if you look at the drawing( I removed the link because it was not that good) you will see that as the thrust bearing moves forward it causes the outer part of the clutch cover to move away from the flywheel and the engine is no longer firmly connected to the gearbox.

The "throwout", a term that is causing you the most confusion, is the amount of movement applied to the clutch cover. If it is excessive then the clutch cover can be damaged because it is only designed to cope with a small amount of movement.

Whether it be a Hillman ,an Austin, Ferrari or Fiat, if it has a clutch, the physics are the same.

There is no substitute for "in the flesh" examples of how things work.

I haven't pursued "motor cars - gearboxes - clutches" etc etc on Google but I would hazard a guess that somewhere on the WWW there are ample graphics of how things work.

Returning to recent posts, I would also vote in favour of getting the vehicle to a garage. Perhaps be patient and see what Rick comes up with, he knows a lot of people....

To be honest, if I was still in the UK I think I would have already jumped in the car and driven down to see your vehicle in the flesh.

Best regards

Peter L

[/img]

ok, I do understand how a clutch works in effect of it separating the gearbox and engine whilst the gear is selected, so are you sort of saying that the problem could have been there already when they changed the clutch but not shown up at test drive as it took just a little longer to damage the clutch once it was in our possession from maybe Lee starting the engine several times whilst sorting the other problems with the carburettor and distributor etc even though he did no more than move it a few yards up and down the drive, I will check the advert from when we bought the car as I can't remember off hand if he had said the engine rebuild and clutch had been done a year before or in the last year meaning it could have been more recent, I do remember when the young man took Lee out first he was overusing the overdrive but Lee said he thought it was his way of keeping the engine going because of the issue with the carburettor and then Lee only got to drive it back a short way, I wonder if his misuse of it had started to cause the crankshaft or clutch problem.
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TriciaS



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: this is a pic of the car when we purchased Reply with quote

[/url]
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MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 635
Location: Northern MA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VERY nice, Tricia!
The whitewall tyres really suit that colour scheme.
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5981
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks great! Well worth the effort of sorting it.

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 litre saloon
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Jaguar



Joined: 24 Jan 2013
Posts: 19
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Memories are coming back! In te sixties I drove as my daily transport a Super Minx MK III which is looking the same as Tricia's car but with a 1592 cc engine instead of the 1725 cc engine. My one was red with a black stripe.
I agree I certainly would sort out this beautiful Super Minx if it was mine.

Regards,

Peter
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peterwpg



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 2223
Location: New Brunswick. Canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My cousin's father had one. I remember the distinctive headlamp "eye brow" lights.

Sometime late 60's, was the first time I had been in a car that pushed the speedo past the 100mph. I remember it being on the then fairly new A1M motorway.

Re Tricia and Lee's vehicle, it certainly looks very smart.
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TriciaS



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MVPeters wrote:
VERY nice, Tricia!
The whitewall tyres really suit that colour scheme.

I am afraid that my partner changed the wheels as the whitewall tyres were so dirty and would need painting and he was not keen on the wheel trims and hub caps so they are all now stored in the shed, I will get a new picture as soon as the rain holds off long enough for the cover to be taken off, some will like them and some will hate them but that is why we kept the originals.
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TriciaS



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just removed pic of wheels as gone back to original ones and cannot seem to just delete post

Last edited by TriciaS on Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TriciaS



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterwpg wrote:
Reply to Tricia's last post.



P.S Tricia. on a very early post, you described the vehicle as having "overdrive".... is that correct ?


yes it has overdrive, we still not sorted it yet as my mum passed away and have had to sort out lots of things and then get her property repaired so it can be sold for greedy siblings to grab their share as I am the executor and they have made no attempt to help with sorting or cleaning or repairing so had no time to even think about the car, now it is all sorted and up for sale Lee is back outside testing again and looking, he had a good look with a torch at the clutch and it looks nice and black so presume it is still like new, when the weather gets a bit better Lee is still deciding which to check first the thrust washers or the clutch, I have bought the thrust washers in +5 and +10 but when I measured them both 1 pair measures .097 and the other pair .10 so both almost the same size but wont bother getting more until he takes old ones out to measure if they in there of course
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TriciaS



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:34 pm    Post subject: Thrust washers Reply with quote

well finally Lee has got the sump off and yes you are correct 2 thrust washers in sump and 1 still in the engine, 1 of the ones in the sump has no face to it at all and the other has a little left, measured them and tomorrow Lee will take the other one out and measure the gaps to see what size we need to put in, he also thinks the bearing cap looks mullered on one side, I iwll try to add a pic so you can let me know if they should look like this haha.. hmmm I can't remember how to add a pic, but one side is black and the other is scratched looking silver[/img]
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V8 Nutter



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Posts: 494

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the thrusts have actually fallen out it will be a waste of time just replacing them. this was a very common problem with Triumphs and back in the day I lost count of how many I repaired. It's a matter of engine out complete strip down, weld or metal spray the damaged crank and block, re-machine back to standard. It used to happen on Rootes engines but not so often. It's a long and costly process and I doubt if there are many machine shops would take it on nowadays. It was usually caused by excessive wear in the clutch allowing the release fork to go over centre and create too much pressure on the thrusts.
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TriciaS



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://flic.kr/p/Rk8Q3F
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TriciaS



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tried following instructions to put pic but no luck yet
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