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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1268
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peppiB wrote:
Leaving Newcastle on a dual carriageway at lunchtime today. A '78 Passion Wagon in front wanted to turn right at the upcoming roundabout, signalled and started to move to the other lane. Enter a BMW 4x4, straight up the outside and almost colliding with the Passion Wagon, forcing him back into the nearside lane in front of me. I HATE 4x4 drivers. We have a name for them, but much too rude to include on here


I drive a classic 4x4. Why do you hate me? As far as i know, we've never met!
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D4B



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 2083
Location: Hampshire UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

emmerson wrote:
peppiB wrote:
Leaving Newcastle on a dual carriageway at lunchtime today. A '78 Passion Wagon in front wanted to turn right at the upcoming roundabout, signalled and started to move to the other lane. Enter a BMW 4x4, straight up the outside and almost colliding with the Passion Wagon, forcing him back into the nearside lane in front of me. I HATE 4x4 drivers. We have a name for them, but much too rude to include on here


I drive a classic 4x4. Why do you hate me? As far as i know, we've never met!


I am sure peppiB didn't mean ALL 4x4 drivers, after all I am one of those in my Series Land Rover, so is Ellis, and I just know we can feel the Love Cool
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Riley Blue



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 1750
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D4B wrote:
emmerson wrote:
peppiB wrote:
Leaving Newcastle on a dual carriageway at lunchtime today. A '78 Passion Wagon in front wanted to turn right at the upcoming roundabout, signalled and started to move to the other lane. Enter a BMW 4x4, straight up the outside and almost colliding with the Passion Wagon, forcing him back into the nearside lane in front of me. I HATE 4x4 drivers. We have a name for them, but much too rude to include on here


I drive a classic 4x4. Why do you hate me? As far as i know, we've never met!


I am sure peppiB didn't mean ALL 4x4 drivers, after all I am one of those in my Series Land Rover, so is Ellis, and I just know we can feel the Love Cool


I reads to me as though the '78 driver failed to determine that the outside lane was clear of overtaking traffic before making their move - you can't blame 4x4 drivers for that, even ones who drive BMWs.
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1963 Riley 1.5
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1954
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

riley541 wrote:
D4B wrote:
emmerson wrote:
peppiB wrote:
Leaving Newcastle on a dual carriageway at lunchtime today. A '78 Passion Wagon in front wanted to turn right at the upcoming roundabout, signalled and started to move to the other lane. Enter a BMW 4x4, straight up the outside and almost colliding with the Passion Wagon, forcing him back into the nearside lane in front of me. I HATE 4x4 drivers. We have a name for them, but much too rude to include on here


I drive a classic 4x4. Why do you hate me? As far as i know, we've never met!


I am sure peppiB didn't mean ALL 4x4 drivers, after all I am one of those in my Series Land Rover, so is Ellis, and I just know we can feel the Love Cool


I reads to me as though the '78 driver failed to determine that the outside lane was clear of overtaking traffic before making their move - you can't blame 4x4 drivers for that, even ones who drive BMWs.


If I had been the BMW driver, I would have been chastising myself for 'failing to anticipate the actions of another road user'....especially when approaching a r/about or junction. IN 'my' case, I would have been carrying excessive speed for such a close-quarters situation [moving alongside another line of traffic.....I should not consider myself an 'overtaking' vehicle in the legal sense..the right lane approaching a r/about isn't an 'overtaking' lane].....evidence of that being, unable to slow sufficiently when the other vehicle started to change lanes...such that, I forced them back where they came from. On even the most basic of driving tests, one does not 'fail' [ie, acquire a 'serious fault']...because of the actions of another road user...one can 'fail', for simply demonstrating an inability to cope with those actions, and cope with comfort...no dramatics.

For sure, if I had done the job properly, I would be swearing & cursing the passion wagon driver......and, in all likelyhood, said passion-wagon driver would have been totally unaware of how close they would have come to creating a disaster for themselves....

But, in any incident, there is more than one side to the story.

Thus, in no sense am I allotting blame to the BMW driver... or indeed, the Passion-Wagon driver, for we are all capable of making mistakes.....90% of the time, no harm is done, no other person is inconvenienced...the trick is, to recognise when we've cocked-up? Then, perhaps, consider what we could do, to avoid doing it again? Something 90% of drivers are incapable of doing? Or so it would seem, IMHO?

I am 'retired' now.....according to my ex-wife, I'm an OAP. According to my daughter, I'm a GOG. [No, not the Gauge O Guild!]

My 'professional' hat has long since been slung in the bin....indeed, I couldn't wait to surrender my vocational licence categories....removing the temptation to revert back to previous employments!
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1954
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OH..I, too, drive a vehicle ...with a 4 wheel drive capability.

But, it spends 99.9% of its time in 2 wheel drive.

[As do the majority of so-called 4x4's....otherwise they'd all wind themselves up]

It's ugly, too......[but not in the same league of ugliness as a UMM Alter.....]

[I was once going to get a UMM Trans CAt.....but the Parish Council persuaded me to do otherwise.]

I'm rather chuffed with it ATM....having just fitted a plastic boat fuel tank, to replace the ooozy steel original ...even got the original fuel gauge to work, too.]
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47Jag



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 1480
Location: Bothwell, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The scenario as described seems to me to be two cars are approaching a roundabout. The Passion Wagon (btw what is that?) is obviously displaying poor anticipation of the road and where he wants to go. The BMW probably would assumes that he is going to turn left or go straight on after the R/A so he is within his right to pull alongside or pass if there is enough distance before the R/A.

That's my tupence.

Art
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MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2470
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

emmerson wrote:
peppiB wrote:
Leaving Newcastle on a dual carriageway at lunchtime today. A '78 Passion Wagon in front wanted to turn right at the upcoming roundabout, signalled and started to move to the other lane. Enter a BMW 4x4, straight up the outside and almost colliding with the Passion Wagon, forcing him back into the nearside lane in front of me. I HATE 4x4 drivers. We have a name for them, but much too rude to include on here


I drive a classic 4x4. Why do you hate me? As far as i know, we've never met!


As I drive an Audi as my daily driver, and my next restoration project is another Audi, I am finding that there are increasing opportunities to take offence at being lumped into a category with people who are impatient, people who don't indicate, and so on. Best to rise above it, on here at least.

ETA: Smile
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Ashley



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 1426
Location: Near Stroud, Glos

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend of mine used to remind me that half the population is below average intelligence and that the rest, us included, are prone to making mistakes.

It's only because the roads are quite well designed and we're reasonably good at second guessing what those around us might do, that we have as few accidents as we do.

The most alarming thing about older cars is that they need a bit more space around them to allow for their idiosyncrasies, but modern car drivers don't understand that and tend to deprive us of it. I did the Arc de Triomphe in my MK VI Bentley once. Crying or Very sad
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peppiB



Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 686
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly - a Passion Wagon is a VW van or camper van from the 60's and 70's (the ones that cost a fortune these days) so called because, in the case of the van a mattress on the floor, or a ready made bed in the case of the camper van, made it 'enjoyable' when the acquaintance of a young lady was achieved on a night out.

At the time of the said incident the BMW was not visible in my mirrors when the VW signalled to start his manouvre. The BMW came at some speed along the outside and forced the VW back into the inside lane. He wasn't turning right, his route was to be straight ahead. Only the VW wanted to turn right.

Although Land Rovers are 4x4, their drivers tend not to behave like the hooligans I was insulting. There are a specific group of idiots who buy these vehicles and think they own the road, at the expense of anyone else, be it classic vehicle or modern car, they treat everyone with the same contempt

I was not insulting or degrading anyone on here. Still, if people are cursing me then I suppose others are safe - and over many years I have developed a very thick skin!
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4756
Location: Swindon, Wilts.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
While it is not a 100% reliable indication I have noticed that on narrow country lanes, generally, it is the shiny, polished 4x4s which are the ones which WON'T put 2 wheels on the verge when meeting another vehicle.
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gillberry



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 702
Location: Norwich

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have surprised a few as they don't think an old Volvo estate can pull away fast from lights, but the most attention we get is when the caravan is on the back but not sure if that is a good or bad thing as the towing speed in the 60s was 40mph and sometimes we do that if it is windy 😀
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1735
Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to laugh at a modern driver when out in the Herald the other week. He pulled up on my right as I was waiting at the first of 2 sets of lights, first in line. Lights changed and I pulled away, in no hurry as I guessed (rightly) that there would be a lengthy wait at the second lights. Modern driver appeared to be asleep, but then came speeding past me before braking sharply for the next lights, still on red. I thought there might be some fun to be had here, and so was ready when the lights changed to pull away as quickly as a Herald can manage. Modern driver must have nodded off again because I was clear of the junction and into third gear before he came steaming past on the hatchings. Just a shame there was no oncoming traffic that would have forced him to follow me for the next 3 miles or so... Laughing
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stevel98



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

V8 Nutter wrote:
When I am driving the Cadillac most modern drivers are fine. On motorways they often drive along side to have a look, but the drivers of big Mercedes and Audis see it as a challenge and they have to be in front.


I get that in my Corvette.

Mine is an '87 and Audis/BMW's/EVO type things just have to teach me a lesson for driving such a beast and pass me in quite unsafe situations or tailgate me for miles awaiting an opportunity.
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Riley Blue



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 1750
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevel98 wrote:
V8 Nutter wrote:
When I am driving the Cadillac most modern drivers are fine. On motorways they often drive along side to have a look, but the drivers of big Mercedes and Audis see it as a challenge and they have to be in front.


I get that in my Corvette.

Mine is an '87 and Audis/BMW's/EVO type things just have to teach me a lesson for driving such a beast and pass me in quite unsafe situations or tailgate me for miles awaiting an opportunity.


I must be the exception, in my big Audi I'd be driving behind to get a good listen and alongside so my O/H could take some photos - smile please...!
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1963 Riley 1.5
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1954
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Penman wrote:
Hi
While it is not a 100% reliable indication I have noticed that on narrow country lanes, generally, it is the shiny, polished 4x4s which are the ones which WON'T put 2 wheels on the verge when meeting another vehicle.


I have noticed this too...usually the oncoming vehicle is also travelling at too fast a speed to comfortably deal with oncoming traffic...especially if it is out of sight.

There are many single-track [IE, no centre line, therefore council deemed to be too narrow for two way traffic to pass comfortably.] roads around where-I-live....

When out in my daily-driver Daihatsu Fourtrak...I do have every intention of pulling onto the ample verges we are blessed with...but..I'm darned if my good nature is going to be taken advantage of! So, I usually slow right down, near to a part of the verge where I can see there are no deep cross ditches [drainage from the tarmac]....but, until I see the oncoming vehicle making an effort to slow....and show preparation to do likewise for me.......I stay 4-square on the tarmac. Once I see the other driver looking to be courteous to me...if they are in an ordinary car or van, I then pull all 4 wheels right off the tarmac to let them pass......but...if they're in a 4x4-capable vehicle, then I put 2 wheels on the verge, obviously compelling them to do likewise, to get past.
Like I said, I'm always willing to get on the verge to get someone past....especially a lorry [not the size, but the weight, dictates they are better off on the hard standing.]....but, equally, I give the bullies short shrift! I don't push-&-shove...I just sit there, waiting for them to do something decent for once.

When I'm out in the Dellow, it's another story altogether.....everyone tries to give me room to pass.
Which is odd, really...because I'm a lot narrower than everyone else...and the car does have what may be called, an 'off-road capability'...being designed & sold as a trials-orientated sports car.
Our local trackerter drivers usually have charge of humungeous machines...and they seem convinced I'm mad when they meet me.....as I'm more than happy to whizz the Dellow onto the verge, regardless of an ditches.....and back out again.....rather than forcing them to take their heavy machines onto, what may be, soft verges?
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