Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Ashley]

Not with the intention of inviting controversy, but more to stimulate discussion, I thought I'd reintroduce the subject of hotrods.

It's a broad American term to describe cars modified to go much faster than normal, not necessarily in a straight line but mostly. However famous hot rods have also won on race tracks and ovals as well. Some, at the time, were exercises in styling, Taildraggers being the prime example. Thus there were American artists and coach builders who did what their European counterparts were also doing.

The VSCC was founded in the mid thirties to conserve what were considered superior cars of the twenties and Post Vintage Thoroughbreds up to 1.1.41. The Hot Rod movement began in the late thirties, but really got going after the war and the tradition continues till today. Even modern hotrods can fetch vast sums of money and are prized by top collectors like Jay Leno.

The VSCC's cut off date and the escalating values of the rarest cars left them with a diminishing membership, so rather than extend it till say, 1960, they instead made Austin 7 and Riley specials eligible. If you like Brit hotrods. Pre WW1 chassis with WW1 aero engines are also popular as are all sorts of specials that were raced in the day or paid homage to ones that did. The VSCC's sporting mandate results in they're being somewhat controversial. Most are happy, but some take the view that they're destroying old cars. At the latest Goodwood a lot broke down and some sprayed the track with oil. The VSCC are very iffy about American cars joining.

I think this means that both sides of the Atlantic are up to similar tricks and clubs are evolving to cater for the result. I also believe American cars are better made, more durable, more easy to work on and very rewarding classics and that a tastefully modified Model A Coupe with a later V8 can make a very good touring car, but I'm not so keen on Austin 7 specials. Just my opinion, I respect that others would argue differently, which is my reason for this post.

Don't forget that classics now include all sorts of cars up to in some instances the present day. Do you want to restrict the forum and the movement to cars that only you're interested in, or do you think there's a place for all these things and that they're interesting.

As an example, my son has a 1941 Ford Business Coupe, badly but attractively roof chopped, by a Californian artist. It's in the style of a forties Taildragger and will use contemporary parts apart from a small block Chevy 350 and GM400 box to a 3 to 1 transit axle with coil overs and rear trailing arms and Panhard rod. Since he imported it, the car has has been to skilled suspension designers and then in a body shop to build properly what the artist hadn't. It's now in a forties pearlescent maroon and is being fitted up with all the accessories of the day, but the inside will be Italian/French/Brit design with mostly an original dashboard and steering wheel. If there's interest I'll risk the wrath of Ray and post progress photos. It's 12" lower than the original and looks incredible.

What do members think about what amounts to inevitable progress in the old car movement. I should add that these trends are worldwide.



And a UK Hotrod. It's a pre WW1 Picard Pictet with a 9.4 litre Sturtevant engine, not sure about gear box and a Benz front axle.

[D4B]

I find it all very interesting, the skill involved in building them is often mind blowing, I would enjoy a ride in any of them

[BigJohn]

Ashley, I love your sons Ford but I would consider it a custom, not a Hot Rod. A Hot Rod to me is more a stripped out race car for the road or early Lakes Racer like a later version of the Aero engined British race car in the other photo, but more road friendly.
I prefer your sons car of the two, it shows what the American customisers were building whilst European salons were in the style of Figoni and Falashi etc. Of course there was also the tuned moonshiner cars which went on to become NASCAR.
The American scene is very complex, but I see no problem with old school Hot Rods in a 30's style meeting, but tweed plus fours and a monocle might not look right in a stripped Model A with juice brakes and a Lincoln engine. Prejudices will need to be overcome. I love them all, I can see the cheap entry into VSSCC events with an Austin 7, but at 6'6", not for me. American cars of the 30/40's were extremely robust and well engineered. I like them, our hobby has to evolve or die out, fashions change, the cheap built hot rods of the 1950's are just the go faster Saxo's of the last decade. A young persons way of having fun faster.

[Rick]

The forum's for all old cars, whether they personally appeal to me or not. The date cut-off is broadly 1980s, reflecting how things have rolled on since this forum was first set up. If people want to talk about hot-rods, that's ok as (love it or loathe it) it's part of the scene. The overriding consideration is that any conversations remain civil, otherwise I try not to get involved in managing specific topics (and members!!!! ).

(Only b*nger racing is not catered for here, due to certain issues that cropped up some years ago now, and is not up for discussion.)

I hate to see nice complete original cars, especially rare ones, chopped up into hot-rods or vintage specials, but I also accept that it's gone on since the early days. My heart weeps a little when I see bodyshells from pre-war Austin 7s, Bentleys etc, listed on ebay, that clearly have been discarded in a bid to re-clothe an old chassis in a brand new specials body, one which usually adds (sometimes significant) value to the car. Also sad is when an original car has been bought, someone's starting to cut it about, the project is then given up on, leaving a car in pieces that often will be beyond recall as an original car.

RJ
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[Minxy]

The one single thing that winds me up is seeing projects on e-bay and the like that have been started but not finished. If people take a car and chop it about and produce a finished article I see no real problem - I think some of them look stunning and I admire the work and expense put into them, it's the unfinished ones that make me tut. There was a Lanchester LD 10 for sale recently like mine that had been striped and chopped and had a V8 sort of shoe-horned in. I contacted the chap to see if any of the parts he had removed were for sale but he thrown them away, engine, gearbox, bumpers, interior etc etc.....criminal in my opinion.
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Hillman minx convertible. Lanchester LD 10

[Ashley]

As far as I can tell, most current hotrods are build from scrap or incomplete cars, probably because original and unspoiled ones are very valuable anyway.

My son's car has a later door one side and was probably written off in an accident to the rear left side for example.

Those of you who've seen American car programs have probably seen the huge scrapyards they have over there and how in the drier States nothing rusts. Parts are plentiful and quite a few NOS. Apart from fuel consumption, old Americans make a lot of sense, especially prewar when they were light years ahead of us.

[alanb]

I am surprised how many hot rods crop up on our favourite auction site listed as tax & MOT exempt, such as one Morris 8 the other week then list it's modification as custom built chassis, rover V8 engine, jag rear axle & suspension, and Ford independent front axle. How do they get away with it when so many genuine restorations have great difficulty in retaining their historic status?. According to dvla guidelines you need 8 points to qualify,
2 for front axle
2 for rear axle
2 for original engine and drive train
5 for un modified chassis or monocoque body
I'm not against creating hot rods from otherwise scrap candidates but they surely cannot claim to be historic vehicles.
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old tourer


Morris 8 two seater

[Ashley]

I'm not sure quite how much of this GN with a JAP Airship engine is original.



At least it's beautifully done, because most hotrods look dreadful IMO. Only a tiny number are competently built and good looking, but then I have a major aversion to MK VI Bentley specials. Rich has trimmed and repaired quite a few, the last one was horrific, the blown head gasket turned out to be a badly corroded cylinder head and it was so much lighter than the original car that the suspension was rigid.

[alastairq]

Isn't there a VSCC racing class for chassis 'of a certain age'....with [aero?] engines of an equally 'certain' age?

'Twas once a good game, to use American La France fire appliance chassis [because of their age]....with something of aero heritage and powerful stuffed up front?

Duncan Pittaway is a name that springs to mind?

Was it him who used to drive his monster to the event, whip off the mudguards, blast around the track, then drive home again...putting the fear-of-God into the reps in their Mondeos on the way? Straight to the world exhausts, flames and all?

I used to attend VSCC race meets [usually at Cadwell Park, nearest to me]...and seriously admired the 'make-do' engineering that went into some of the racers [usually at the cheaper end of the economy?}

Seat belts?? Surely for whimps only?

[Peter_L]

Personally, I have little interest in Hot Rods, however I am not immediately drawn to tears if someone has created such a thing rather than perhaps restoring the original.

Outside of those who may share my sentiments it is apparent that there are two distinct camps who sometimes enter into a war of words.

So.... may I suggest that OCC opens a Hot-Rod Page. There are pages for many other interests. This way, the Hot Rod people can discuss whatever they wish and those who don't like it can just abstain. There would then be no need for non-believers to feel they have to justify their reasons for not liking Hot Rods. Hot Rod enthusiasts can exchange ideas, news, photos etc and can also dip into the "Classic" side of the Forum.

Forums can be ugly places to live, except OCC that has a reputation for tolerance. Long may it reign.

[Ashley]

This is Duncan Pittaway's 28.5 litre Fiat World Land Speed Record Car from 1911. I'm not sure how much is original but I believe he drove it on the road to Goodwood from Bristol.



It's good to see that most of us are interested and happy to discuss hotrods, even if they are not to our taste. Some are bl---y hideous, but others very special.

[Peter_L]

I find the vehicle above interesting. I am still too young to have actually seen "things" like this for real.

But what is this. ?



My father had a MKII Escort, but try as may I doubt I would have kept up to this, even with talent.

[Kenham]

All that work and the passenger has to stand up, can't be right surely.

[Peter_L]

[Kenham]

Yes thanks for that, now I understand, ejected with some seat foam firmly clenched I think. Wonderful stuff.