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Speed limit enforcement
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6286
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Speed limit enforcement Reply with quote

Recently, Chief Constable Bangham said he wanted to prosecute anyone going just 1 mph over the speed limit. He wants to call an end to the 10% + 2 mph buffer over the limit.

This would be understandable if all speedometers were the same but despite the advances in technology they are not. I recently bought my wife a brand new Vauxhall Mokka 4x4 and it has both digital and analogue speed readouts. The dial is, like all cars these days, electronic, so one would expect the two to be the same. When the digital readout says 30mph the dial will show 31. Which is right, I don't know. My Range Rover, on the other hand consistently reads 3 mph slower than the flashing roadside speed warning thingy but it just shows how the Police cannot expect everyone to comply to such a movable feast.
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Swindon, Wilts.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
Compare the car's two readings with an independent Sat Nav on a fairly level road. if that reads the same as one of the cars then that is accurate, but the chances are that the sat nav will read higher.
Manufacturers generally get their speedos reading up to 3mph fast because they are not nowadays allowed to have them reading low.

This applies to cars with the correct tyres in new condition, if the tyres are worn you actual speed will be lower, if you have tyres with a larger circumference you speed will be higher than indicated by the car's instrument.

The rules used to be + or - 10% at 30mph but they were changed (not sure when but I think it was during the 50s or 60s)
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to say, but all the excuses have been covered, by POlice [as enforcement & reporting of offences..they don't 'do' the driver..the Courts do that!], by the DSA as -was..by DoT, etc.....and by any decent Instructor worth their salt.
Having an inaccurate speedo is no defence for exceeding the speed limit.

My Daihatsu is pretty much spot-on [checked via electronic technologies, etc]....very much to do with the ever so slightly larger diameter [than standard] tyres fitted.

The response to the problem would be.....if in doubt, give yourself some leeway.
It would be pointed out that there is no compulsion to drive along AT the speed limit.....[it is not a target, simply a limit to drive within.] Thus, if a speed...for example, of 27 mph, [in an urban National limit] is maintained, then there's no chance really of getting caught.
But, speedo accuracy is the driver's problem [in Law], not that of the Police.

The safety bleat I often heard, about drivers focussing on the speedo rather than out of the windscreen, shows how little folk really know about driving. Shows how low the normal driving standard really is. [we all arrive safely, probably more by chance and good luck, than by any deliberate effort on the driver's part..Anything an individual can do to lower the risks out there has to be to the good......and one is only as good a driver as the last driving fault.].......A proper sequence of observations by the driver includes the speedo.....and if a driver is so busy staring at their instruments..then they need to go back to a driving school to get remedial training...simples. Thus, that one is in effect a false excuse.

I'm not suggesting I do everything perfectly..I know what should be done, however..and I know how the many & varied excuses are rebuffed, in the appropriate places. Urban myth doesn't wash when it comes to the crunch...or in front of a Magistrate.

The reasons for the 10%+2 leeway are more to do with the logistics of enforcement, than any latitude towards drivers.

In my view, the call for zero tolerance is a way of actually lowering 'speed limits' without going through the legal processes. Effectively, drivers will lose several MPH from their normal speeds to avoid fines....thus, traffic speeds can be reduced.

I have seen this already out on the roads, with the raising of the single carriageway speed limit for LGVs....to 50 mph. [most will take advantage of the 10%+2 anyway, and drive on the 56mph [80kph] speed limiters, [if working properly?].. The result is....overall traffic speeds have reduced to around 45-50 mph, where they used to be 55-60 mph on single carriageway roads.....regardless of whether there's a lorry at the head of the 'convoy' or not.

We have seen latitude with regards to traffic speed with the advent of Average Speed Cameras [as distinct from those that record a 'spot' speed]

These can cover a greater length of highway more effectively...anyone who averages more than the limit needs taking to task....but occasional breaches, along with occasional dips in speed are the 'leeway'...

Yet, I am amazed at how many [older?] drivers don't actually understand how the system works? Far too many [usually in front of me!] think that each camera records the speed, at that point. whereas the one's local to me simply record the registration number.....the speed calculation happens further along the road. Thus, the old fella loses 20 mph going past the camera post.....not realising the unintentional spurt up to 75 mph in between, is the thing that's going to get a letter dropping through their letterbox.

Yup, to me, definitely an attempt at voluntarily reducing traffic speeds still further.
Let's face it...if one is doing 36mph in a 30, then one's speedo needle will likely be well over the 30 mark!! Surely a half decent, observant driver can tell if the speedo needle is halfway between the speed marks, thus something needs correcting?

As an aside, historically...rather than reducing speed limits, this country has been noted as more keen on raising them?

Remember when all the urban limits were set by the relevant Local Authority...most were set at around 20 mph....yet when the Government of the day decided to rationalise these limits, it chose a National urban speed limit of 30 mph! Luckily, when we first entered the Common MArket, we failed to adopt metric measurement for distance..otherwise we might well have ended up with the French urban speed limit, which would have us down to around 25 mph in town, instead!!

Around hereabouts, many prolonged 40 rural] limits have been dispensed with....the only places, rurally, where limits have been reduced [50 from 60] is where there is a 'history of collisions..lowering the limit supposedly means, drivers have more time to respond to that car indicating [and possibly stopping] to turn right? [I used to live on one such main road. at least every fortnight we would hear the squeal of locked tyres, then the sounds of a crunch..knowing yet another driver had rear-ended someone turning right at the crossroads we lived by. Drivers seemed to have two driving brain cells..the parking cell, and the motorway cell]
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6286
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted the report to highlight the issue not to question anyone's driving habits. For my part, I doubt the change will make any difference to my driving as I always keep within the limits.

I don't brag about it but in 47 years of motoring I have not had any speeding convictions, apart from one. When I was a new driver I exceeded the 30 mph limit on a new section of road near Woking. The prosecution, however, was quashed (along with hundreds of others) when the local Police chief gave evidence to the Court that the speed limit on that section of road should legally have been set at no lower than 40 mph.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
19 Speedometers
1. The vehicle shall be fitted with a speedometer capable of indicating speed in mph at all speeds mph. up the maximum design speed of the vehicle.
2. For all true speeds up to the maximum design speed of the vehicle, the true speed shall not exceed the indicated speed.
3. For all true speeds of between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the maximum design speed if lower), the difference between the indicated speed and the true speed shall not exceed—
V / 10 + 6.25mph

where
V=the true speed of the vehicle in mph.


From :-http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/3013/schedule/2/made#text%3Dspeed%20lower
This is an EU regulation..blame the French, if all else fails?
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Ray White"]I posted the report to highlight the issue not to question anyone's driving habits. For my part, I doubt the change will make any difference to my driving as I always keep within the limits.

/quote]
I didn't wish to cast any personal aspersions...Merely to either [a] comment on observations made over decades as part of my job.....and [b] to point out ..like it or not, what the responses would be , from an Authority, to the excuses.

Luckily, in your example quoted, it was realised that a limit had been imposed unlawfully..and the proper outcome was achieved. Limits cannot simply be imposed arbitrarily..a legal process has to be undertaken...and this also takes a lot of time. Obviously someone within the local authority did not follow the correct procedures.

Every road sign or marking has a set of regulations as to use, disposition, etc, enshrined in Law.
If a road sign, or marking, doesn't comply with these regulations, then it becomes unenforceable.
[For example, solid, continuous white lines down the centre of a road? They must comply with Legal regulations as to construction, size, etc etc.....otherwise they are there purely for show.] Always worth checking if reported for an Offence involving 'failure to comply'?
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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1771
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a digital speedometer which I use in my two classic cars - one because I know the speedometer is not very accurate, and the other because it is in kph (and also is probably not very accurate). Maintaining a constant speed of 30mph on the digital speedo, I get flashed on the various local roadside warning displays at anything between 27mph and 33mph ...
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can be prosecuted today for doing just 1mph over the speed limit, it came up in a speed awareness course that I did a couple of years ago...

It's the NAtional police guidelines that suggest the 10% leeway, basically so that drivers are note glued to their speedometers and not watching the road + 2mph to allow for speedo inaccuracies, which there will always be because tyres wear which obviously affects the reading.


Last edited by ukdave2002 on Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6286
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukdave2002 wrote:
You can be prosecuted today for doing just 1mph over the speed limit, it came up in a speed awareness course that I did a couple of years ago...


There was something in the news quite some while back about relaxing the enforcement regime and it had all the road safety bods up in arms. Laughing
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mikeC



Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 1771
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to remember that Derbyshire Constabulary instigated a zero-tolerance regime about twenty years ago; it was quietly dropped after the Chief Constable was caught out ...
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in the garage: 1938 Talbot Ten Airline
Recently departed: 1953 Lancia Appia, 1931 Austin Seven, 1967 Singer Chamois, 1914 Saxon, 1930 Morris Cowley, 1936 BSA Scout, 1958 Lancia Appia coupe, 1922 Star 11.9 ... the list goes on!
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