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ANPR
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Swindon, Wilts.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:07 am    Post subject: ANPR Reply with quote

Hi
Just a word of warning if you ever have your vehicle on a trailer or flat bed.
SOME users oif ANPR seem incapable of differentiating between a vehicle on the road and a vehicle on a transporter.

Working for a company which moves courtesy cars and customers cars between our body shop in Manchester and the customers location, it has transpired the TfL has been charging us for both vehicles when using the Dartford crossings, for which we have registered all our vehicles for automatic payment.
They might be doing the same in the LEZ and Congestion Charge area.

We registered with them because the office staff wouldn't necessarily know what routing round the M25 and it's environs drivers would use depending on traffic holdups.
As an example I usually only do the driveable cars jobs not the transporter jobs and the other week having gone down over the QE bridge to Kent, I chose to return clockwise round the 25 because there was a 2-3 hr delay at the tunnel northbound.
I would suggest that in future anytime you have a vehcle transported, insist on it having the number plate covered up
ANPR will be used by more and more authorities for road charging so watch out.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure a member will know the answer, but I wouldn't have thought it legal to have 2 different number plates displayed on the rear, regardless of what they are attached to?

Dave
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Swindon, Wilts.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi ukdave
It is illegal to have 2 different plates on one vehicle, but have a look at all the transporters (other than new car loads) out there.
It is very rare that you see the load's reg number covered up, that includes loads on recovery trucks.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukdave2002 wrote:
I'm sure a member will know the answer, but I wouldn't have thought it legal to have 2 different number plates displayed on the rear, regardless of what they are attached to?

Dave


Yes..perfectly legal. If a trailer is being towed, then the towing vehicle's registration must be displayed on the rear of the trailer[or trailers, if more than one being towed, as in agricultural vehicles?]
Regardless of what is one the trailer.

Where confusion arises, concerns the towing of another vehicle.

Whilst the towed vehicle may keep its registration mark displayed....there must also be a sign clearly displayed on its rear [height of letters & numbers is in the regulation]....stating, 'On Tow', and the registration mark of the towing [recovery] vehicle.
Because, in effect, the towed vehicle is a trailer.

This in itself brings out a shed-load of additional regulations....for example, the licence categories of the driver doing the towing?

[Must have the +E category for the type of vehicle being used to do the towing......except in an 'emergency'...when an ordinary category licence holder [B] can tow another vehicle...to the 'nearest SAFE location....tow beyond the first layby, and one can be 'done'...]

The driver of the towed vehicle must have a relevant licence as well.

The tow rope must be of a length that does not permit a distance of 4.5 meters between vehicles...and if over 1.5 meters distance, the tow rope must be clearly 'marked'...

Whilst I am uncertain if a Regulation exists...I know many 'professional' recovery folk will not permit any passengers in the towed vehicle.


Of course, regarding number plates [reg. numbers] it is also legal to drive [in the UK] without displaying a reg number.
This is the rule that permits a vehicle to be driven to, and from, a pre-booked MoT test....or journies required and authorised by the tester......if a registration mark has not yet been issued...and requires a valid MoT test in order to be issued.

Interestingly, a vehicle without a valid Mot [but which must be roadworthy, by Law] can be driven to, & from a pre booked MoT test.....yet the Regulation does not specify where, or how far away, that pre-booked MoT test should be. Theoretically, one can buy a car, without a valid MoT certificate....and drive from one end of the country to the other [subject to the above]....as long as one pre-books an MoT at one's destination. This allows essentially for the situation of not being able to book an MoT test, where one wishes, at the time one wishes.
One can also make 'reasonable' stops or deviations, on the way.

Thus, one can deviate for fuel, or to visit the local paper shop for sustenance or ciggies.....on the way....as long as the tops are 'reasonable'...which is a legal premise?

A point I'd like to make here, as it is of relevance, and is seen so many times...is the use of hazard warning lights whilst conducting a tow.
It is unlawful!

[Indication of intention cannot be given, for starters].....

The only times hazard warning lights can be used, are stated in the Highway code...and there is only one instance allowed, for the use of hazards, and then, only briefly, whilst moving.
Yet so many so-called 'safe' drivers are seen using them when towing....a case of, a lack of proper knowledge leading to unlawful, and improper, actions being conducted...folk doing what they think is best....?
[Urban myth rearing its ugly head again]
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
ukdave2002 wrote:
I'm sure a member will know the answer, but I wouldn't have thought it legal to have 2 different number plates displayed on the rear, regardless of what they are attached to?

Dave

Yes..perfectly legal.
Amazing! Drivers can be prosecuted for not spacing number plate characters correctly on the basis that the plate could be "misread" yet 2 different plates can be displayed ! Rolling Eyes
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number plate font and spacing has been in place long before the advent of ANPR...and is concerned about visual identification ....not just technology.

Any issue concerning ANPR reading of two number plates is down to technology shortcomings.....a road user intent on identifying a vehicle/trailer, or a towed vehicle combination, will see which number plate belongs to what vehicle.

Doesn't affect me, for example, as I don't go near any sort of major conurbations that have traffic charging.

Plus, surely it is better to misidentify a vehicle via ANPR, [which can be corrected...cannot help if a company's systems don't recognise mis-charging??]....than to be totally unable to identify a reg number......which might belong to an uninsured, or untaxed vehicle?

It could be said.
...to display a number plate whose font & spacing are totally at odds with the LAw, is a deliberate attempt to avoid recognition, thus enabling Law breaking without consequence?
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Riley Blue



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 1750
Location: Derbyshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel the very valid point of the original message has been somewhat obfuscated by subsequent posts. It relates to vehicles being carried on flat beds or trailers through ANPR controlled tolls, not one vehicle displaying two number plates or displaying incorrectly sized number plates or with characters illegally spaced.

The advice is simple and sensible: when carrying a vehicle in such circumstances, cover its rear number plate.
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

riley541 wrote:
The advice is simple and sensible: when carrying a vehicle in such circumstances, cover its rear number plate.
Makes sense to me.
Dave
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MikeEdwards



Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2466
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alastairq wrote:
It could be said....to display a number plate whose font & spacing are totally at odds with the LAw, is a deliberate attempt to avoid recognition, thus enabling Law breaking without consequence?


I'm sure a lot of people who put silly script fonts, mis-spacings, extra bolt heads are aware that they should not, but I'm equally sure that there are many of them who just buy a "nearly good" registration and don't think they're doing anything wrong, and will argue with the MOT tester when (or if) they fail it.
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