Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Ray White]

This proposal has been put forward by Great Northern Classic Cars (whoever they are?) and has been received well by some people like Andy Jones of I Wilkinson & Son (who I know personally). The idea may be O.K. in theory and the building needs to be saved but does it really seem like a serious proposition to you enthusiasts?

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-vintage-car-museum-friar-1714036

[Keith D]

To take a building that has been derelict for fifty years and transform it into a building that has a climate controlled environment seems very optimistic if they reckon it can be achieved for ten million pounds. I would suggest thirty at least would be nearer the mark considering the size of it.

Having said all that however, I think it would definitely be an asset to your community if it goes ahead, Ray.

Keith
_________________
1926 Chrysler 60 tourer
1932 Austin Seven RN long wheelbase box sedan
1950 Austin A40 tourer
1999 BMW Z3
Its weird being the same age as old people.
You are either part of the problem or part of the solution

[Ray White]

Yes I am sure it would be an asset to Derby and if Rolls Royce had any spare money they could be involved but they are in a spot of trouble right now...

I thought £10 million would be too much for a car museum let alone £30 million. How long would it take ( if ever) to make a return.?

I used to work for a firm who specialised in converting large Country houses into smaller, yet still high quality, units. We also converted some of the large former mental institutions but none of the buildings had been allowed to decay to this extent. Nice as the facade may eventually look, I would suggest this building has probably gone too far.

Is there really evidence that classic car restoration skills are dying out?

[peter scott]

I think the building would need a lot of capital and that really probably requires a large proportion to be sold as housing or rented for commercial use. I can't see old car owners being happy to display/store their vehicles in the same building in which car restoration takes place with all the attendant risks of saw dust and welding. (he said with Glasgow School of Art fresh in the mind.)

Peter
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1939 SS Jaguar 2 1/2 litre saloon

[Ray White]

"Training the next generation of Vintage car engineers" and "ensuring the Classic Car legacy continues" sounds a bit like pie in the sky to me. "Bringing new life to the vehicle restoration industry" is even more wishful thinking.

The original plans that were approved in 2011 were for 140 homes and the building converted into a supermarket but the chances of this happening are now remote. I get the feeling that this is a last chance for the building (a derelict shell) to find an alternative use rather than finding a home for a museum/training operation.

The people involved are talking like they have found a solution to a problem. I don't see a problem in the first place.

I would have thought an exhibition centre would have made more sense but with the demand for housing at an all time high in Derby, I can see just one or two options; neither of which involve old cars.

[Bitumen Boy]

I'm skeptical about the number of jobs they reckon would be created by such a scheme - 130? Maybe during the building phase but not permanent jobs in the long term unless the jobs are the sort of part time shrapnel that nobody really wants. That figure sounds like a sop to the planners to me.

Otherwise I echo the general sentiment, it sounds like a nice idea but I doubt it's a practical one. If the building is to be saved at all - and I wonder how practical that is - it pretty much has to be as housing, the risk of winding up with a massive white elephant is simply too high otherwise.

[Rick]

If they can pull it off and raise sufficient ££ then why not? Getting that building back to health will be a huge job, but presumably they know that.

It sounds similar to Bicester Heritage, where the old airfield buildings are being rejuvenated and are being populated by classic and vintage car specialists, including apprenticeship schemes in the art of restoration. Check out what they're doing, it reads as being very similar to the ambitions of this Derby idea. Compared to when I made an impromptu visit to BH a couple of years back, it really has come on. Various dealers are based there, as are specific specialists, such as radiator re-furbishers, magneto experts, and so on. Storage too plays a part, in the big old hangars.

The old Belfast Truss hangars at the former Hooton Park airfield are also being restored from head to toe, a few years ago people would have laughed at the suggestion that the wooden roof structures (for example) could be fully rebuilt with a view to the hangars being usable once more.

RJ
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[Ray White]

[ukdave2002]

Finger in the air calculation; a £10m investment requires around £10k per week to support the financing. Operating costs would need to be added to the £10k, so from a purely business proposition it would probably need to generate about £14k per week to be viable, 130 staff earning something between minimum wage and average salery will cost circa £4m a year/£75k per week. it sounds a tad ambitious unless there is a very generous benefactor or significantly qualified revenue streams other than visitor fees.

Dave

[Ray White]

The more I study this proposal the less like a "Museum" it seems to be. More like a secure storage facility with servicing/valet facilities. I have a feeling this might work in London...but Derby? This is a working class town and apart from Rolls Royce aero and Bombardier train builders wages are generally quite poor.

I am confused because I didn't know that Derby College needed another building to do classic car restoration courses in... and if there isn't the interest from the younger generation I expect it is because there isn't a future career in it.

[Inglewood]

GREAT NORTHERN CLASSIC CARS LIMITED; Company number 11167173

Company Overview for GREAT NORTHERN CLASSIC CARS LIMITED; Officers Persons with significant control:

COPESTAKE, Michael Guy
Correspondence address Kemp House, 160 City Road, London, United Kingdom, EC1V 2NX
Role ACTIVE
Director
Appointed on 24 January 2018
Nationality British Country of residence United Kingdom
Occupation
Solicitor
JONES, Robert
Correspondence address
Kemp House, 160 City Road, London, United Kingdom, EC1V 2NX
Role ACTIVE
Director
Appointed on 24 January 2018
Nationality British Country of residence United Kingdom
Occupation Accountant
LATHAM, Derek James
Correspondence address Kemp House, 160 City Road, London, United Kingdom, EC1V 2NX
Role ACTIVE
Director
Appointed on 29 January 2018
Nationality British Country of residence England
Occupation Architect
MATTHEWS, Shaun
Correspondence address Kemp House, 160 City Road, London, United Kingdom, EC1V 2NX
Role ACTIVE
Director
Appointed on 24 January 2018
Nationality British Country of residence United Kingdom
Occupation Engineer

[Ray White]

I also investigated this newly formed company. Funding is likely to come from the Derby Local Enterprise Partnership which is charged with regenerating areas of dereliction. I am yet to be convinced that this unlikely scheme is not just a ruse to access funds. I make no accusations against anyone. However, perhaps more information would go some way to allay suspicions.

[Clactonguy]

the idea sounds good. however as pointed out . building that size would need a fair size income stream to cover running costs assuming rebuilding was fully funded in first place.
aware that area has a reputation as down at heel so a more modern interior and suited to local needs. is. way forward.
agree if on edge of say London..then its possible a tourist attraction in own right when completed.
looking at other Venues such as NEC classic car shows etc. we see just showing off old cars is NOT enough to get revenue stream of any real significance . especially. if we talking about 130? employees .
one of the major interest ( and funding stream for charity) comes form allowing members of public to be carried in a car of their choice around a circuit .paying quiet hefty chunks too!
getting young generations interested in Old cars .how they work and. fixing them is know to occur where they get to drive. them some clubs now introducing a scheme for young drivers to have a drive ( with owner in car) on a circuit etc . thus starting that key interest point!
the site looks large enough to have a 'circuit' going around it.
assuming. fenced off with bridge access etc and IF they can get a few old road worthy cars to use.. inviting local schools to visit, have a drive? see stripped down parts. possibly as part of a school 'lesson'?
suspect this may become a white elephant unless funding streams can be sorted . lecture rooms? teaching classes ? hands on equipment etc
with todays kids. using high end technology day to day ..the interest in having to mechanically work at anything would seem uninteresting and boring.
however ..a half hour on a test track in an old 'decently 'fast car . with full safety in place of course . and. having to assist a mechanic ? try and at paint spraying etc . often only way to get any new interest is if kid has a father or. uncle who owns an interesting old car and they have had rides in one!
hopefully building will get. funding before it falls into completes decay.

[Ray White]

I don't really see that it matters that much if the younger generation shuns our old car hobby. If future generations are going to be more concerned with clean air and sustainability then our type of car will simply disappear from the roads. If they are not interested in the same things as us oldies are, we should not be surprised.

I hope I won't be around to see that day but if the youngsters are not getting into proper car maintenance because their Dad drives a Prius and doesn't know a camshaft from a crankshaft then it will take more than a contrived classic car college course to change their outlook.

[ukdave2002]