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Underfloor Smiths heater
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trampintransit



Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 166
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject: Underfloor Smiths heater Reply with quote

Our Armstrong Siddeley has an under floor heater under the back seat. The motor is knackered and I can search for somekind of replacement motor, but the worrying bit is the fan / impeller ...which is a white nylon affair. The heater is stamped type R240. Anybody got any idea about the fan?
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jp928



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 249
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

R240 is a model of Smiths heater - used in Land Rover and probably many others. There should be many spares available. I once had a P4 Rover which was pretty cold in the back so I put a heater core under a front seat, and blew air through it with half the fan casing.
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trampintransit



Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 166
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

popular it might have been somewhere, but try googling it..nothing. Even spoken to few heater type people who know nothing of it. The fan motor is easier to down but not the heater box. IF it was in Landies I'll try a few of those folk. BUT ..TBH ..I can rebuild the box myself and replace the fan and motor with a computer case fan

I'n not familiar with secondhandgarage?
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Last edited by trampintransit on Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jp928



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 249
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is an article on secondhandgarage about restoring one. I doubt that a 12V computer case fan will move enough air to be useful in a car - they are much too quiet. The motors are available.
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trampintransit



Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 166
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The motor is available but not cheap, and the fan is proving a bigger problem. I've found some ludicrously powerful computer fans about the same size as the original fan and they aren't expensive...cheap enough for a try out. to be fair, the heat exchanger itself is pretty small so there's no need to move that much air or it'll over cool it? For the sake of getting it back together quickly I'll try the 'puter fan and let you know.

I'm not familiar with secondhandgarage ?
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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MK3 Rover P5's and P5B's had Smith underfloor heater which used the widely used heater fan motor in almost all British cars in that era and even Metros! The fans for these came in various diameters and widths
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trampintransit



Joined: 09 Aug 2010
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Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I have said....I appreciate that I can get the motor, but since the motors appear to be about 40quid, and since nobody knows what I'm talkkng about regarding the fan ( and now with the info that the fans come in different sizes...therefore the code R240 becomes redundant if the fans vary in size ..nobody I've spoken to recognises the code R240 ) and given that the only people who possibly do have a fan is Wadhams Rover suppliers and they want 75quid plus delivery for a second hand fan that may not even be the right size and incredibly really cant be bothered to go and even measure the ones they have ( even at 75quid each ) ...in the circumstances, a computer fan that claims to shift 75 cubic feet per minute for less than the price of a pizza and pulling a fraction of the current seems worth a shot?

Wadhams really weren't interested in me at all because it wasn't for a Rover.
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jp928



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here
http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public4/smith-heater-restoration-1.cfm

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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you needed the motor? These can be had s/h at AJ's for peanuts. Why can you not fit the old fan onto the new one?
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petelang



Joined: 21 May 2009
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Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it a tubular fan as shown in the link of the last mail? If so these are commonly used on many kinds of heater fan units on modern cars too. Just visit a local breaker, should have something to suit.
Peter
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trampintransit



Joined: 09 Aug 2010
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Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, we're all at cross purposes here. The motor and fan are both buggered. I'm aware that motors are available, they seem to around 40quid. The fan is destroyed ...but ...the unit I have is not remotely like the one in that seconhdhandgarage link. I've seen plenty of them, they don't scare me! What I have here is not a squirrel cage type and the fan is a flat nylon fan, kinda like the sort of thing you used to get in yer grans heairdryer...y'know....the 'side entry' type hairdryer.

The unit itself is pretty much exactly the same size and shape as a thin cereal box...like an Alpen box!

The thing I've got in front of me is like nothing I've ever seen before,. but the suggestion that Rover used it as an underfloor heater WAS plausible, but the one image I found by googling 'Rover P5 underfloor heater' shows something similiar...but different. The fan MIGHT fit but at 40quid for a motor and 75quid for the fan, I'll try this electric fan that I found in a box of bits in the study first!

Googling 'Smiths R240 heater' produces no results. Googling Armstrong Siddeley Star Sapphire rear heater, or variations thereof has so far produced nowt. In fact, It's amazing how googloe has produced no images of this heater despite three sessions of trying! Serves me right for having an Armstrong Siddeley!

So..thus it seems the Rover heater isn't the same, I don't know what else might have used it, but either way, I'm not getting close to anyone seemingly having a fan like the one that was in that R240.

I've found the rear heater from a Landy that someone suggested...again ..completely different.

So, you can see why I'm going to try the computer fan . I've got one that pushes 45CFM , if that even half works then I can get one that pushes 75CFM, which seems to me to be quite a good amount. especially when compared to the rather inefficient looking simple centrifuge fan that was in there.. ..AND, I'm kinda into anything that reduces the overall load on the dynamo and the modern fan pulls a fraction of the current.

This feels like one of those moments when you know you're gonna get nowhere untill you find the bloke called Bill , who's about 90 , and lives somewhere up a hill, on a farm , outside Derby and who's entire life is about Smiths heaters!
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MVPeters



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible you could post a photo or two?
That might jog some memories & speed things up a bit!

If originality is not critical, then your computer fan may well be a sensible solution. Modern fan & motor (brushless?) designs are very efficient.
I wouldn't be too concerned about too many CFMs, you can always slow the motor down.
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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A photo would be very useful as would dimensions and I can post one of our rear P5 heater fan. This has a centrifugal fan as opposed to the radial impellor type
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trampintransit



Joined: 09 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I got an hour or so in the shed today, and it looks like the computer fan is going to do nicely. Might not even need it on high speed ( it as a little three way switch ) and it's certainly quiet. I'll let you know..
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Phil - Nottingham



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done then and I hope it works. The purists may have kittens though
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