Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6303 Location: Derby
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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lowdrag wrote: | Of the model, which was in production in various forms for 14 years, I have the worst. It has uncomfortable seats, is very cramped and at 5' 8" I have the seat back as far as possible, it overheats, it has poor original brakes, atrocious headlights - do I need to go on? Yet it is the most collectible of the model; the flat floor 1961 E-type. Drive a S2 and you will marvel, but the styling had been lost, a bigger mouth to accommodate a bigger radiator with twin fans, bigger brakes, better lights, (although looking awful under the bumpers) and it is the most civilized of the E-types if you don't want the V12. Yet it doesn't ring the bell for most people. Who needs comfort? |
What says you about the Eagle Speedster? |
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lowdrag
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1585 Location: Le Mans
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I was 100% against when it first was shown, but you know, we old timers have got to come to terms with the word "restomod", which is to say an E-type low drag with an uprated 4.6 litre engine, power steering, aircon, and whatever else the buyer wants. The Speedster is just in one way a form of americanised hot rod, just like they did and do with the 1932 Ford. If we are not to pass the same way as the dodo we have to accept that younger people want the style with the mod cons too, and who am I to ctiticize if they can write a cheque that large? I buy a new car, I choose the options, and so it is with classics now. I still have this idea to take an MG ZA Magnette and modernise it, with a Rover V8, aircon, power steering, uprated suspension and so on. Negative earth of course to cope with charging my phone, a Becker Mexico retro with GPS built in but looking like a 1960s face, and so on. Will I do it? I doubt not. There is much less steam in the boiler than there was a few years back, but if I win the lottery it'll be done. |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6303 Location: Derby
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your thoughts Lowdrag. The comparison to American hot rods is interesting. Like you, I am torn.
What makes me laugh, however, is when we continually hear that the E Type was the most beautiful car of all time. The original concept was stunningly beautiful; no contest - and ticked all the boxes at the time.... but - as this thread demonstrates - for reasons that could have stopped production in it's tracks - Jaguar Cars went on to completely ruin the appearance of the car. To my eyes the series 2 cars are horrible to look at (better to drive) but the V12 was just a joke. Someone described it as having a grand piano up front! |
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Im looking at getting an XJ6, whilst the later cars are cheaper, the simplicity of the earlier models attracts me more.
Kevin |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6303 Location: Derby
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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kevin2306 wrote: | Im looking at getting an XJ6, whilst the later cars are cheaper, the simplicity of the earlier models attracts me more.
Kevin |
If I may make a suggestion. The build quality of the Series 2 cars is awful. Unfortunately, the series 1 cars in good condition are now getting expensive but in my opinion are a good investment. Series 3 are probably the better model but many people criticise their rear roof line but it wouldn't worry me.
I don't have experience of anything later, I'm afraid but the cars were so totally
redesigned as to be practically a different vehicle.
Best of luck. |
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kevin2306
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1359 Location: nr Llangollen, north wales
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Cheers Ray
Only just started looking to be honest
Kevin |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22438 Location: UK
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6303 Location: Derby
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Many years ago my then Boss had a vivid yellow XJ6 Coupe which became affectionately known as "the custard tart"
It was an impressive looking car with plenty of poke but to say it was thirsty would be an understatement. For some reason the main agent responsible couldn't fix the problem.
There is also an inherent problem with the two door model and that is the degree to which wind noise intrudes and I think it is virtually unsolvable - that is unless anyone here knows differently. |
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lowdrag
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1585 Location: Le Mans
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Ray White wrote: | Thanks for your thoughts Lowdrag. The comparison to American hot rods is interesting. Like you, I am torn.
What makes me laugh, however, is when we continually hear that the E Type was the most beautiful car of all time. The original concept was stunningly beautiful; no contest - and ticked all the boxes at the time.... but - as this thread demonstrates - for reasons that could have stopped production in it's tracks - Jaguar Cars went on to completely ruin the appearance of the car. To my eyes the series 2 cars are horrible to look at (better to drive) but the V12 was just a joke. Someone described it as having a grand piano up front! |
I think most people tend to agree with you here. I have always called the V12 the "medallion man's car" but that is rather unfair. How were Jaguar to know that the jewel of an engine that is the V12 would be crucified by the petrol crisis? One famous write once said of the S1 that "it looks as if the sidelights and indicators are clinging on for dear life in the wind" and it is an apt description. I am of course biased, having one of the first, but what people don't really get to grips with is that the S2, while not as pretty, was the overall best of the bunch mechanically. Better brakes, seats, cooling, synchro boxand so on. Some of that came from the S1 4.2 of course.
But look back at the XK; the 120 was so achingly beautiful in 1949, the coupé the prettiest for me, but then we had the 140 with big bumpers and then the XK on steroids called the 150. Getting better all the time, but fatter and uglier - just like me! It occurs to me that history repeats itself in that the BMW Z4 was far prettier in coupé form than roadster. |
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7gzr
Joined: 16 Aug 2018 Posts: 14 Location: 'B' road Heaven - Wild Wales
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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interesting thread - My S4 lotus7 was the last of the line [in fact my car is the last genuine Lotus 7 registered in UK] Lotus only made 600 odd, of which 20 or so are left on UK roads, Most people hate the S4 [but they are the people who know nothing about the S4 and just repeat the toss put out by Caterham who no longer own the rights to the S4 - Redline now own the S4 rights to produce it and parts etc] though many toad tests extoll its many virtues compared to the earlier cars.
Problem is with earlier cars s1-S3 there are many kit car copies so it's impossible to tell a real Lotus7 from a newer kit car'7' - of which there are many brands [westfield, robin hood, locust, locost birkin, etc etc]
My cars advantage over s1-s3's is that it is unmistakable as a Lotus - Whether you like S4 or not is irrelevant - though I often get asked if its a real one - If you're one of the wally's who asks that Q then you better be prepared for my verbal response |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6303 Location: Derby
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Can you explain something to me please? (see, I asked nicely) Why does it matter if a car is a Lotus as opposed to a Westfield, a Caterham or any other brand? Don't they all do the same sort of thing? |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Posts: 1950 Location: East Yorkshire
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Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:40 am Post subject: |
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I agree with you, Ray..why does it matter?
Must be up to the individual? Kudos, perhaps?
In the end, a bunch of tubes, is a bunch of tubes...perhaps? |
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Rick Site Admin
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 22438 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:54 am Post subject: |
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Ray White wrote: | Can you explain something to me please? (see, I asked nicely) Why does it matter if a car is a Lotus as opposed to a Westfield, a Caterham or any other brand? Don't they all do the same sort of thing? |
On paper I suppose they do, but if the heritage of the company that built your actual car is important to you - the bloodline if you like - then a rep vs original are world's apart. Waters are muddied somewhat when a car was often supplied as a kit for the first buyer to build. Some of the very well done "recreations" are very nice cars don't get me wrong, but have a very different appeal IMO to an original. Reps vs originals deserves its own thread really.
RJ _________________ Rick - Admin
Home:https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
Videos:https://www.youtube.com/user/oldclassiccarRJ/videos
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014 Posts: 6303 Location: Derby
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Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Yes Rick. Sorry for the thread drift. |
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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1382 Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Probably a little young or modern for Kevin's tastes but A Jaguar X300 XJR would tick my boxes.
Superb cars if you can find a really good one. _________________ Starting Handle Expert
1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet |
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