Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[Rick]

[7gzr]

Ray White
I agree with what you say regarding kit cars in fact I've owned and built many Including Dutton's robin hoods, and cobras.
Biggest Problem is with the owners of Westfields Locosts etc putting Lotus badges on it and then trying to state its the real thing, Most people can't tell hence the major problems which Caterham sorted out in the courts [THEY WON] However If they have a westfield, or dutton or robin hood badge on ithe car as they should then of course There's no problem. The same happens with Westfield 11's & Lotus 11'S where original Lotus are worth 6 figures and westfields only 4 figures for a really good one.
My point was which clearly you've missed/failed to read/understand is the S4 is totally different to an S1-S3 Lotus 7 so ought never be confused with them.
Thus the wally's who ask me whether my cars genuine are really showing just hiow ignorant & brain dead they really are
As to whether the S4 is better or worse than earlier cars that's for everyone to decide themselves

[Rick]

[Ray White]

7 gzr. I asked you to explain why it matters whether a 7 is a Lotus, as opposed to a Caterham, a Westfield or any other brand. Your explanation seems to be that (for reasons that remain a mystery to me) the Lotus is simply worth more than the others. Presumably, there are design factors that make it so desirable?

I appreciate your concern regarding fraud and as I know nothing about your type of car could quite easily be one of those taken in should I wish to buy one.

Not wishing to be regarded by you or anyone else as an "ignorant dead head", I (and others here no doubt) - would value your contribution. Perhaps you could extol the virtues of your Lotus 7 with some photos.?

[7gzr]

Ray White
Of course it doesn't really matter what 7 you own - Particularly with regard to S1-S3's [including westfields, locosts, birkins et al] they basically all look the same to casual observers, this is the reason people get conned when buying one by the badge stuck on it, and a driver with a large GOB telling anyone who'll listen that its genuine 7.
My Lotus 7 S4 on other hand looks totally different [IN my eyes at least] to the S1-S3's Lotus7's, all body panels, windscreen, suspension, Chassis etc are different, [only the ford mechanicals are the same] which makes identifying an S4 easy to anyone with even the slightest interest in 7's
As I mentioned I get irked when someone asks me whether mine is a genuine Lotus 7. - this is simply because no one other than Lotus has made an S4 version of the 7, that then means that any S4 lotus 7 that you may see is of course genuine that to me seems Obvious [so why ask the silly Q]??!!!!!
I'd like to post a pictures to show you but so far I've not been able to work out how to post pics on OCC, I did ask in a post, but was refered to a link which mentioned flickr,google,apple etc for which I don't have access to, I'm not an 'I T' geek so I guess that means I'll NEVER be able to post any pictures herein.
Only around 3200 Lotus 7 were made in total over the 4 series,[over the production period of 16 years 1957-1973] which made them a rare car, even during the period of production. I read somewhere that approximately 40000 Kit car 7's have been made since, [of the various brands including those previously mentioned] plus of course Caterham[who own the rights to produce the 7 officially and the '7' brand name] have produced S3 shape 7's too, their annual production varies between 250-600 cars /year which adds to the huge total of S3's shape 7's made, and out there on the roads. By my reckoning there's probably 50-60000 S3 shaped 7's out there, compare that figure with only 600 odd S4's made and you can maybe understand why my S4 is far more unusual, than the very common S3 shape which everyone knows and recognises.
To me that makes the S4 far more interesting than any of the S3's together with the fact I built one of the 600odd produced NEW from a CKD [complete knockdown kit]. £Value has nothing to do with it. Thankfully the S4 has never been seen as desirable as the S3's which means its still possible to buy one for sensible money [Yes a genuine 1970's Lotus for so little £ash] So far as driving it is concerned, well it goes at least as well as any S3 of similar power, in fact the S4 was banned from racing [because it was too fast!!] You may have seen the iconic Yellow 'T' shirts emblazoned with the logo in lotus green print - LOTUS 7 - TOO FAST TO RACE!]
An interesting point, when Caterham ceased S4 production in 1975 and then started producing the older Lotus 7 S3 shape - they created the whole 7 kit car industry, would Westfield, Dutton, Birkin, Robin hood, etc etc ever thought of re-producing the older S3 shape as a kit - personally I doubt it - Caterham gave them all the idea
Although I'm sure in some ways they regret doing so - Oh well thats life, you live and learn - maybe: D
As far as Lotus 7 values are concerned IMO They can only rise, as classic enthusiasts realise what a groundbreaking car it was and still is.
It's major drawbacks to most people [ say compared to a MGB/Midget or Triumph spitfire etc of the same age] is that its only purpose in life is to go fast, there's no creature comforts whatsoever, compared to a Lotus 7 the othercars mentioned are Overweight slugs IMO and have no reason to exist, again IMO a thue sportscar is meant to excite, any 7 easily does this provided you are prepared to live with its foibles, most Classic car owners are NOT prepared for this prefering for example the overpriced Mk1 &2 Ford Escorts and other saloons of this era - hence the sensible prices of genuine Lotus 7's so to answer one of your questions - Why own any other brand of 7 when a real one is available for not much £ash? Westfields etc can cost as much as or even more than a Real Lotus 7 so why buy a replica or fake?????????????????????????????????
Another plus to owning a Lotus 7 is easy entry into ANY classic car show of your choice - so groundbreaking & iconic a car is it, organisers never have any at their shows, so are eager to guarantee you entry however late you ask, this certainly isn't the case for the more boring cars you normally see at these shows sometimes 20-30 of each car how boring is that [No Marques mentioned here for fear of upsetting owners]

[Ray White]

Thanks for your introduction to the Lotus 7, et. al.

Maybe try not being quite so critical of those less knowledgeable than yourself.

I wouldn't be able to identify a particular model of Lotus 7 ...
by the same token, you wouldn't be able to identify the different models of Austin 7s...

[Rick]

Talking of "lasts" - the Series III E-Type. I've never been particularly entranced, especially by the fixed-head version. I was however very taken by a very very dark green S3 FHC that I followed down the M6 a little while ago, from the back especially it looked superb. Admittedly, it was being compared to the hideously-styled (I use the word loosely) Hondas, Toyotas, Kias et al that were cluttering up the other lanes, but nevertheless it did look magnificent. I'm not sure I could live with the rake of the windscreen and the stretched look from side-on though.

Had there never been a Series I, and the III was the only E-Type produced, I wonder whether the final examples would be more revered?

RJ
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[Ray White]

[kevin2306]

[Rick]

[lowdrag]

Ah, the dreaded AED (automatic enrichment device)! I used to start the engine, open the bonnet, disconnect the wire to cut the choke out, then replace the wire. A truly 'orrible piece of kit that.

The S1 and 2 E-types were made with a shell 9 ins shorter than the S3 because they standardised production on the 2+2 shell. All of those 9 ins are in the door which in roadster form seems to lose its proportions somewhat. Again, the rake of the screen is more upright to give more interior space and allowing the use of two instead of three wipers. Again, it isn't so sleek as the coupé. I posted earlier that to me the XK120 coupé is the prettiest of the XK range, and the S1 3.8 (or 4.2) coupé is again the prettiest. But we could go on and on about many models. I had a S1 Golf GTi and I was so disappointed at the style of the S2 when it came out. As always, fatter and not so pretty.