Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1382 Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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peter scott wrote: | I like the look of them but I'm for ever breaking spokes and I do find them a pain to clean. You are also forced to use tubed tyres.
Peter
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Peter,
You might be interested in this. Like all of us, I suspect, I have built a fairly large collection of spare parts, some completely unnecessary but I have a spare set of wire wheels for the Mark 2.
A few weeks ago I was given the address of a motorcycle wheel specialist and when I spoke to him on the 'phone he said he could rebuild any wire wheel using new stainless steel spokes he actually makes "in house".
I'll go and see him over the next few weeks and see what he has to say and, of course price.
I will let you all know the result in due course. My wire wheels aren't chromed but powder coated silver done then (1995) by a local enterprise, sadly since closed. _________________ Starting Handle Expert
1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet |
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badhuis
Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1390 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Ellis wrote: | A few weeks ago I was given the address of a motorcycle wheel specialist and when I spoke to him on the 'phone he said he could rebuild any wire wheel using new stainless steel spokes he actually makes "in house".
I'll go and see him over the next few weeks and see what he has to say and, of course price.
I will let you all know the result in due course. My wire wheels aren't chromed but powder coated silver done then (1995) by a local enterprise, sadly since closed. |
I have used a wire wheel specialist over here (Netherlands). He can and does the same - building new wire wheels. He supplied the two types/lengths of stainless steel spokes which I needed when on a motorway journey a wheel nearly collapsed. 12 spokes were broken! Very scary - I was just in time to stop the car.
I have replaced those and am checking the wheels now frequently (by ear - broken spokes sound much different). _________________ a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4104 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: |
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badhuis wrote: | Ellis wrote: | A few weeks ago I was given the address of a motorcycle wheel specialist and when I spoke to him on the 'phone he said he could rebuild any wire wheel using new stainless steel spokes he actually makes "in house".
I'll go and see him over the next few weeks and see what he has to say and, of course price.
I will let you all know the result in due course. My wire wheels aren't chromed but powder coated silver done then (1995) by a local enterprise, sadly since closed. |
I have used a wire wheel specialist over here (Netherlands). He can and does the same - building new wire wheels. He supplied the two types/lengths of stainless steel spokes which I needed when on a motorway journey a wheel nearly collapsed. 12 spokes were broken! Very scary - I was just in time to stop the car.
I have replaced those and am checking the wheels now frequently (by ear - broken spokes sound much different). | I wouldn't think stainless steel is a suitable material for spokes! I'd be very nervous driving anything with a stainless steel spoked wheel, possibly acceptable on a light bike, but not on a car where sideways force on the wheel is significantly higher.
Dave |
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Mikey77
Joined: 10 Jun 2014 Posts: 45 Location: Limoges
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: |
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I think chrome wire wheels are an abomination. Painted ones, however, can enhance some motors.
My gunmetal Mk2 was on steels and looked right, I reckon.
In 1965 my friend took delivery of a new red and white Cortina GT with a Willment Sprint conversion and silver painted wire wheels. It was the only one I ever saw with wires and it looked fantastic. Many years later I spotted it derelict in a back garden in Wellington, Somerset. The wires had vanished. |
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Ashley
Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 1426 Location: Near Stroud, Glos
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Stainless Steel is a description applied to a variety of metal alloys with varying degrees of corrosion resistance, so some grades make good spokes. |
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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1382 Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Ashley wrote: | Stainless Steel is a description applied to a variety of metal alloys with varying degrees of corrosion resistance, so some grades make good spokes. |
Agreed Ashley. The gentleman I spoke to about respoking the spare set of wire wheels I have told me that there are various strength grades.
I'll let you all know after I've met him. _________________ Starting Handle Expert
1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet |
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ukdave2002
Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 4104 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Ellis wrote: | Ashley wrote: | Stainless Steel is a description applied to a variety of metal alloys with varying degrees of corrosion resistance, so some grades make good spokes. |
Agreed Ashley. The gentleman I spoke to about respoking the spare set of wire wheels I have told me that there are various strength grades.
I'll let you all know after I've met him. |
It's not so much the strength that's the problem but the fatigue together with work hardening. There are many variants of stainless steel, but I have yet to see one that performs better than mild when it has to have good tensile strength together with fatigue resistance, decent machining properties for the thread, elasticity and strength after forming,hence the reason that SS fasteners are not common on safety critical components.
The stresses on a car wire wheel are different to a bike, apart from the obvious difference in mass between a bike and a car, when a bike corners it leans a car doesn't (well significantly less!) there is much more flex in a car wire wheel.
At best SS spokes will fracture more frequently than mild steel.
I personally wouldn't use SS fasteners for anything more than fixing badges or number plates.
Dave |
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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1382 Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Point noted ukdave2002.
I'm still going to see him and seek his advice. I was aware that chromed spokes are the weakest of all due to the plating process.
My wire wheels aren't chromed but powder coated, however 20 years storage have naturally caused some deterioration in the appearance and lustre/gloss.
If it means having steel respoking and re powder coating then so be it. _________________ Starting Handle Expert
1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet |
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roverdriver
Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 1210 Location: 100 miles from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: |
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I do like the look of wire-spoke wheels on certain cars, however I am puzzled by the fact that wheel construction seems to follow pedal cycle technology. The wire wheels introduced on the last of the Ford Model T's, then all of the A' and continuing for early V8's were a brilliantly designed pice of equipment that rarely gave any bother at all. The spokes were weled each end. I believe that the process was that the spokes were all heated at once, then welded to the rim and hub all at the same time. As the spokes cooled they contracted so putting the wheel under tension.
There is a story that when the wheel was in development, and being tested, on cars, Henry asked for alternate spokes to be cut on a test, to see what would happen. The wheel behaved perfectly. Next half of the remaining spokes (alternatively) were cut, and again the wheels behaved so production got under way
I have had a Model A wheel that was slightly buckled, but that had been subject to major abuse. Many many thousands of miles in many different A's and wheels were never any problem. _________________ Dane- roverdriver but not a Viking. |
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lowdrag
Joined: 10 Apr 2009 Posts: 1585 Location: Le Mans
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I have wire wheels of course on the E-type, but when the old chrome wires got very doggy I replaced them with new MWS painted wires which to me look better (and more original) than chromed ones. Another point is that they do not reequire inner tubes, so I fitted Blockley tubeless radials and have had no further problems at all. I am not sure, but I believe that even though the spokes are painted they are stainless underneath.
IMG_0282 by Tony Brown, on Flickr |
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7gzr
Joined: 16 Aug 2018 Posts: 14 Location: 'B' road Heaven - Wild Wales
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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The wife owned a Morgan with Steel wires - We both hated 'em, cleaning was a sad chore eventually we bought a set of regular steels with chrome hubcaps, IMO suited the car much better. |
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Ellis
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1382 Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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lowdrag wrote: | I have wire wheels of course on the E-type, but when the old chrome wires got very doggy I replaced them with new MWS painted wires which to me look better (and more original) than chromed ones. Another point is that they do not reequire inner tubes, so I fitted Blockley tubeless radials and have had no further problems at all. I am not sure, but I believe that even though the spokes are painted they are stainless underneath.
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Can I ask you which make of tyres you have on those new MWS wheels and in particular the size and profile please.
If I was to go for, say, 205/80 or 195/65 they will "rub" on the standard size rear wheel spats and I'm not convinced about using the Coombes type imitation spats I do have. _________________ Starting Handle Expert
1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet |
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badhuis
Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1390 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Ellis wrote: | If I was to go for, say, 205/80 or 195/65 |
Not very comparable as these have a very big difference in overall diameter!
205/80/15 = 709 mm
195/65/15 = 635 mm
https://tiresize.com/tyre-size-calculator/ _________________ a car stops being fun when it becomes an investment |
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MikeEdwards
Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 2470 Location: South Cheshire
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Ellis wrote: | My wire wheels aren't chromed but powder coated, however 20 years storage have naturally caused some deterioration in the appearance and lustre/gloss.
If it means having steel respoking and re powder coating then so be it. |
A mate of mine mentioned the other week during a general conversation about things that the problem with powder-coating wire wheels in preference to painting them is that it can be more difficult to detect a broken spoke under the powder coating.
I have no experience with wire wheels, they'd look silly on my seventies Vauxhall. Not as silly as those "wire wheel look" hub caps that used to be available, but just not right. But the Vauxhall is a bit like (IMO of course) the eighties Audi coupe - it only looks right with the factory OEM wheels on it. |
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Ashley
Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 1426 Location: Near Stroud, Glos
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:36 am Post subject: |
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It’s not difficult to see broken spokes, with 48 if one goes others follow, sixties are better so you can drive around with a couple broken until you spot them. Seventy-twos are better and last quite well. |
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