Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.

[colwyn500]

Today I was stuck for three miles on a single-carriageway A-road behind a long line of traffic held-up by a Rover P6 which was travelling at 38mph. As I regularly use my two-cylinder Fiat 500 on the same road at the National speed limit of 60mph and I am prepared to pull in in the unlikely event of me causing a tailback, I got to thinking what responses this frustration might be eliciting in the other delayed drivers who may not share my empathy for older vehicles.
Obviously, the Rover may have been suffering from a mechanical problem or have been running-in; but there was no visual evidence of this. But in general, as I think that the majority of classic cars are driven for pleasure rather than the practical task of getting from A to B, it is good practise that we should make a reasonable attempt to avoid annoying other drivers.
This particular car should be capable of at least 100mph, so 60 on a smooth, straight road is surely not too onerous a demand?
I'm well aware that this behaviour is not confined to classic-cars and is actually more prevalent with moderns. I also realise that there is a contingent of drivers who may think they are doing the world a favour by moderating the road speed of other drivers. But I prefer to be a good ambassador for old vehicles, so without hurting my car, I keep my foot down when out on the open-road and enjoy the returning smiles, thumbs-up or incredulous looks that I get from other road users.

[Uncle Alec]

Spot on colwyn; sounds like a bit of inconsiderate P6 driving there. Should have pulled over to clear the backlog.

[mikeC]

If that road is capable of taking traffic at 60mph, then the problem lies as much with the car second in line as with the Rover. I don't have the luxury of being able to travel at 60mph in my Austin Seven, but it irritates me immensely when others insist on driving right on my tail for miles on end when there have been numerous opportunities to overtake safely.
_________________
in the garage: 1938 Talbot Ten Airline
Recently departed: 1953 Lancia Appia, 1931 Austin Seven, 1967 Singer Chamois, 1914 Saxon, 1930 Morris Cowley, 1936 BSA Scout, 1958 Lancia Appia coupe, 1922 Star 11.9 ... the list goes on!

[Kenham]

The national speed limit is not compulsory.

[alastairq]

I have mixed views on 'pulling over' to clear what appears to be a 'tail-back'.
The problem is, as colwyn mentions, the one of 'perception'.
For example, an old car [classic, vintage, banger, call them what you will?] travelling along at 50 mph is seen as an 'obstruction' by those road users intent on doing nothing more than getting rapidly from A to B.
A Tranny van travelling along at its speed limit [50mph, single carriageway, rural roads]....is seen as 'normal'.
For me, the example always was, when out driving my old BMW 2002...travelling along at a good 60-plus{!} mph, having other cars desperatey overtake, get in front, then drive along at 50+ mph, getting in my way! Purely because the BMW was seen as an 'old' or 'classic' car, therefore must be driving along slowly....!!!!!!!!!!!!
For me, as a one-time professional in the driving world, there is no difference whatsoever.....it is a 'vehicle'...it is 'there', so I deal with it if the situation demands.

The real problem is the inability of a huge number [majority?] of drivers to effect a low risk overtaking manoeuvre.

Despite most modern vehicles actually having a 'surplus' of power!

They do not understand how to 'observe'...so sit behind, plugging along.
If one driver starts to follow, and do nothing, then soon, so does two, or six....and the one driver in a hurry is then confronted by a slower obstacle the length of a couple of artics.
Bigger problem then, for overtaking?

Much, of course, will depend on the nature of the actual road.
Or the prevailing speed limit?
For north Wales, for example, I can imagine actually finding somewhere that has clear visibility for oncoming traffic, for long enough, might be an issue?

I have found , often enough, that 'pulling over' to allow a long line of 'following' traffic to pass, is extremely counter-productive. In effect, the overall speeds of the traffic flow haven't changed..and I find myself held up by the traffic I have allowed{?} to pass.

I find that 'smooth, straight, wide roads' are common enough around hereabouts, yet, through daily observation over the decades, I find general traffic speeds to be significantly lower than the prevailing limits..[50 in a 60, for example]....so when I overtake everything in sight in my olde worlde Daihatsu Fourtrak....or the Dellow, I am in 'danger' of being labelled a 'hooligan'...and an 'old' one at that!

Of course, there is the 'proper' method of conducting a vehicle, in which the driver doesn't wish to travel at,or close to, the speed limit [which is a limit, not a target]....which says that, by driving more slowly, one is making life a lot easier for following traffic to actually overtake.
For example, it was always very much easier to overtake a tractor in the old days, before road gears, etc...when its speed was around 20-25 mph flat out...than it is today to pass a modern tractor flying along a 35-40 mph!!

Those towing caravans have similar issues regarding perceptions, as 'classic' car drivers.
The reality is often, the caravan isn't actually the 'obstruction [but is in fact making 'best progress'.....]....the obstruction really being, the one or two vehicles following behind, who, for whatever reason, fail to make the opportunity to overtake.
Why do folk rage on at caravans...... yet say nowt about the vehicle towing a trailer? Is it about what one can see beyond? [Harder with a caravan, as they are an excellent view-block?]

Perhaps there's much to be said fro general driver education?

For example, if one is content to simply follow the plodding vehicle in front [rather than seeking to overtake].....then one should also consider those behind, by leaving a lot more space between one's own vehicle, and the vehicle in front?
In this respect, Military convoy rules are easy to apply.
IE, leave [maybe] a 70 metre gap twixt one's bonnet, and the vehicle in front...which allows others to overtake the whole shebang bit by bit.

But..they don't! They cling on to the rear bumper of things like Rovers, making life so much harder for the driver 5 cars back! Removing the Rover probably won't make things any easier, or quicker.

What we also have to remember is...a 60 mph [national] speed limit really isn't a 60 mph speed limit!

The thing about National speed limits is, they vary, depending on the type of vehicle [and type of road].

Unless it's a Sunday afternoon, the 'actual' speed limit will be nearer 50 mph [that for up-to 3.5 tonne vans[trannies], buses, coaches, LGV's of both categories, caravans, trailers etc.]
Thus, [ignoring one's so-called 'freedom' to flout the limits, hence, flout the Law]...whilst we in our cars and motorcycles may be legally able to potter along at 60, the first time we encounter a Tranny van, our limit becomes their limit, so to speak.
So the 35 mph Rover then is only travelling at a mere 15 mph below what a lot of vehicles' limits actually are!

Then there's the issue of, was the Rover's speed actually a general 35mph? Or, was it actually going faster, but the cumulative effect of traffic collecting behind made their speed around 35mph? [Think about why traffic comes to a standstill on a 70 mph motorway.....for no apparent visible reason?]

Perceptions?

What if the Rover had actually been a brand spankers BMW on limp mode?

Is our own perception of creating an 'obstruction' not actually shared by the majority in the traffic queue behind?

I, personally, would be careful of pulling over to 'get out of the way'.......for we may simply be swapping one category of slower vehicle, for another? [Pensioner drivers, learner drivers, novice drivers, drivers too busy putting on their lipstick? Drivers too involved with their connectivity? Tranny vans, caravans?]

Besides, there's nothing nicer than a 'clear road ahead' for enjoying the drive.
Which only happens when one is, 'at-the-front?'


The real issue is, the local roads aren't sized properly for the volumes of traffic imposed on them.
Round hereabouts, the issues are the same [holiday traffic-time especially].

There can be no 'minimum' speed on any road [For one should always drive no faster than the prevailing road, and traffic, conditions dictate?]

Especially roads under motorway regulations!

[Otherwise, every driver whose motorway speed is forced to drop below 20 mph, would be 'breaking-the-Law'? ]

Perhaps the answer is, for us old vehicle drivers to get out & use those vehicles a lot more?

Aside from each of us becoming more familiar with the making of better progress in the older technology...other road users get to see us more, and become 'used' to us?

Perceptions will be the death of us all?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.

[Rootes75]

I like the comment that the speed limit is not compulsory, just because its 60mph doesn't mean you have to go that speed.
I live in rural Somerset and I can tell you that farmers driving tractors do not pull over even when tailbacks are huge.
I also think that its up to the individual as to what speed they feel comfortable driving at, that chap with the Rover may drive his modern at that speed too?
_________________
Various Rootes Vehicles.

[Ashley]

[alastairq]

[Riley Blue]

[mikeC]

What's a 'good reason'? How about 'I'm in no hurry and don't want to'?
_________________
in the garage: 1938 Talbot Ten Airline
Recently departed: 1953 Lancia Appia, 1931 Austin Seven, 1967 Singer Chamois, 1914 Saxon, 1930 Morris Cowley, 1936 BSA Scout, 1958 Lancia Appia coupe, 1922 Star 11.9 ... the list goes on!

[Keith D]

I agree with MikeC as I also drive an Austin Seven. I also experience drivers so close behind me that I tense myself waiting for them to run into the back of me, especially when pulling away from traffic lights.

However, many of our main roads have cycleways on the left hand side. These consist of continuous white lines about two metres from the kerb. Provided there are no cyclists around, I pull into this lane, which allows other motorists to pass me safely. Very few bother to acknowledge that I'm breaking the law to ensure our joint safety!

I have actually spoken to our Commissioner of Police regarding this practice and was told that it was common sense to pull to the left provided there were no cyclists anywhere near. I doubt whether that would stop me getting booked by his police officers however!

Keith
_________________
1926 Chrysler 60 tourer
1932 Austin Seven RN long wheelbase box sedan
1950 Austin A40 tourer
1999 BMW Z3
Its weird being the same age as old people.
You are either part of the problem or part of the solution

[peter scott]

[47Jag]

Peter,

‘Making a challenge’ should also indicate to the pass-ee of your intentions and wake them up. I see so many modern drivers who might as well be asleep at the wheel for all the attention the exhibit. I’d would love to be there when a SS Jag. zooms past.

Art

[Riley Blue]

[peter scott]