Classic cars forum & vehicle restoration.
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colwyn500
Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 1745
Location: Nairn, Scotland
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 Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Deliberately soaking pedestrians by splashing them with puddles is not inconsiderate but actually constitutes what I would call "aggressive driving" and has nothing to do with this subject.
It is not a good argument to say that because many drivers of modern cars push on too quickly for the road conditions and pose an harassment or threat to the rest of us, we drivers of older cars should not feel any need to use our cars in a courteous way.
I don't think we need to get too fastidious in being concerned about constantly pulling-in or pushing our cars too hard. But I do think we should use quieter, minor roads where possible and be aware just in case our driving style or our car's (in)ability is leading multiple other road users to feeling a degree of frustration.
We can judge and have opinions about whether they ought possibly to be a bit more "chilled", but it is arrogant and potentially dangerous to translate this viewpoint into defiantly and regularly obstructing the fluidity of traffic movements on arterial roads. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Deliberately soaking pedestrians by splashing them with puddles is not inconsiderate but actually constitutes what I would call "aggressive driving" and has nothing to do with this subject. |
It is covered nicely by the offence of 'driving without consideration for other road users'.....regardless of individual opinion.
Not getting out of the way of traffic [individuals?] who might wish to travel faster, if making 'reasonable progress' with due regard to road & traffic conditions, isn't.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I don't think we need to get too fastidious in being concerned about constantly pulling-in or pushing our cars too hard. But I do think we should use quieter, minor roads where possible and be aware just in case our driving style or our car's (in)ability is leading multiple other road users to feeling a degree of frustration.
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I agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment. The downside for me is, the minor routes can be lacking in nice smooth tarmac, unlike the major routes......a consideration when driving with beam axles and crossply tyres.
Plus, using the minor routes/countryfied lanes requires a whole different driver mindset as to how to minimise the risks when confronted with narrow road width, and very limited forward vision due to bends, and hedges, etc. Here, the speed capabilities of old vehicles present little or no issue.
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | We can judge and have opinions about whether they ought possibly to be a bit more "chilled", but it is arrogant and potentially dangerous to translate this viewpoint into defiantly and regularly obstructing the fluidity of traffic movements on arterial roads.
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Personally, I don't hold opinions in the above regard. I observe, cope, anticipate, etc, regardless of what the others are doing. I don't ask the question as to 'why' others do what they do.....their actions are a fact-of-life, simples. How I cope with what they do is more important.
However, the last part of the quote above isn't particularly limited to drivers of old vehicles.
Indeed, it is certain it applies more to drivers of any vehicle, especially moderns!
With That, we need to address the reasons as to why drivers [old, older, or not so old?].feel the need to exercise that sort of control over the other road users?
The presence of a classic car in the mix is really a tiny weeny part of a far greater drivng issue...
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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Uncle Alec
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 734
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| When caravanning with the Riley (@50-60mph) I try to use dual carriageway/motorways as much as possible, to maximise the chances of faster traffic being able to pass me. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | We can judge and have opinions about whether they ought possibly to be a bit more "chilled", but it is arrogant and potentially dangerous to translate this viewpoint into defiantly and regularly obstructing the fluidity of traffic movements on arterial roads.
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Personally, I don't hold opinions in the above regard. I observe, cope, anticipate, etc, regardless of what the others are doing. I don't ask the question as to 'why' others do what they do.....their actions are a fact-of-life, simples. How I cope with what they do is more important.
However, the last part of the quote above isn't particularly limited to drivers of old vehicles.
Indeed, it is certain it applies more to drivers of any vehicle, especially moderns!
With That, we need to address the reasons as to why drivers [old, older, or not so old?].feel the need to exercise that sort of control over the other road users?
The presence of a classic car in the mix is really a tiny weeny part of a far greater drivng issue...
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | We can judge and have opinions about whether they ought possibly to be a bit more "chilled", but it is arrogant and potentially dangerous to translate this viewpoint into defiantly and regularly obstructing the fluidity of traffic movements on arterial roads.
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Personally, I don't hold opinions in the above regard. I observe, cope, anticipate, etc, regardless of what the others are doing. I don't ask the question as to 'why' others do what they do.....their actions are a fact-of-life, simples. How I cope with what they do is more important.
However, the last part of the quote above isn't particularly limited to drivers of old vehicles.
Indeed, it is certain it applies more to drivers of any vehicle, especially moderns!
With That, we need to address the reasons as to why drivers [old, older, or not so old?].feel the need to exercise that sort of control over the other road users?
The presence of a classic car in the mix is really a tiny weeny part of a far greater driving issue...
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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lowdrag
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1585
Location: Le Mans
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Personally, I find it is the road users holding me up when I am out in the classic, not the other way round. I remember following an ex-racing driver in his Austin 7 and at a roundabout a Vauxhall Astra overtaking him at the entry to a roundabout. Casually opposite locking he came out of the roundabout in front of the Astra. The look on the driver's face was priceless! He drives it regularly to central London too. |
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Penman
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4756
Location: Swindon, Wilts.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Hi
We are here getting into the area of perceptions. What is Driving at a reasonable speed for the road, the vehicle and the conditions? What is careless and inconsiderate driving?
These are both Q's which require a subjective decision NOT an objective one.
The RTA 1988 gives:-
| Quote: | Meaning of careless, or inconsiderate, driving
(1)This section has effect for the purposes of sections 2B and 3 above and section 3A below.
(2)A person is to be regarded as driving without due care and attention if (and only if) the way he drives falls below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver.
(3)In determining for the purposes of subsection (2) above what would be expected of a careful and competent driver in a particular case, regard shall be had not only to the circumstances of which he could be expected to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused.
(4)A person is to be regarded as driving without reasonable consideration for other persons only if those persons are inconvenienced by his driving. |
Personally, I don't regard the 38-40 described in the opening post as particularly inconsiderate as it allows for a 20 mph differential with the max permitted speed on that road to allow for other vehicles to overtake when the view permits.
On the other hand a 15-20 mph tractor and trailer might be so considered if the road doesn't present overtaking opportunities as could a bunch of 10+mph cyclists.
I will sometimes drive at max permitted speeds for LGVs and at other times max permitted for my vehicle, in neither case am I being inconsiderate, and sometimes I will be nowhere near either speed; ie last winter coming down Woodhead after dark in 2nd and 1st when the road had icy patches, I had to correct 4 or 5 slides on that occasion and was leading one of the last queues down it before it was closed due to accidents.
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Bristols should always come in pairs.
Any 2 from:-
Straight 6
V8 V10 |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | We can judge and have opinions about whether they ought possibly to be a bit more "chilled", but it is arrogant and potentially dangerous to translate this viewpoint into defiantly and regularly obstructing the fluidity of traffic movements on arterial roads.
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Personally, I don't hold opinions in the above regard. I observe, cope, anticipate, etc, regardless of what the others are doing. I don't ask the question as to 'why' others do what they do.....their actions are a fact-of-life, simples. How I cope with what they do is more important.
However, the last part of the quote above isn't particularly limited to drivers of old vehicles.
Indeed, it is certain it applies more to drivers of any vehicle, especially moderns!
With That, we need to address the reasons as to why drivers [old, older, or not so old?].feel the need to exercise that sort of control over the other road users?
The presence of a classic car in the mix is really a tiny weeny part of a far greater driving issue...
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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MikeEdwards
Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 2470
Location: South Cheshire
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:33 am Post subject: |
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I was thinking of this thread yesterday when I was returning from the show at Cholmondeley Castle. I was in a country lane, behind three people on cycles doing a reasonable (for a cycle) speed. I couldn't get past them, the road at that point is too twisty and even in my modern car, I wouldn't have risked it. This turned out to be the right decision as, just at a point where I thought I might have a go, another cyclist came the other way and would just have been in the wrong place, had I "gone for it".
But I looked in my mirror after a few minutes, and saw a bit of a stream of traffic. It's only a lane, so not much, but behind me was a Minor convertible, then two or three moderns, and I suddenly wondered if they all thought I was just driving slowly for no reason, whether my car was blocking the view of the cyclists that were actually causing the low speed.
In any case an opportunity arose and I passed them with a decent space. A mile or two later, the only car from the stream that was still in my rear-view mirror was the Minor, so maybe the others didn't care about how slowly we were going. Or perhaps they were still stuck behind them. (Or of course, perhaps they'd turned off, or got home, or many other things). |
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alastairq
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I was in a country lane, behind three people on cycles doing a reasonable (for a cycle) speed. I couldn't get past them, the road at that point is too twisty and even in my modern car, I wouldn't have risked it |
You hilite an issue of 'association' which many cannot see around.
In this case, cyclists, one assumes, don't have a real speed capability, so when they get ''in the way'' they become vilified.....yet your cyclists were making a reasonable pace.
It's the same with cars....... a modern car, travelling at a reduced pace, may well just be 'accepted'....an old car [Moggie Minor, perhaps?] doing likewise, and it becomes a 'nuisance classic, in the way'.....
Perceptions, agin...how do we overcome them, I wonder?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces. |
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Ray White
Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6312
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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I have the perception when driving my Austin Seven Swallow that I am going at a higher speed than I actually am. I suspect that this is a safety feature built into the car to compensate for Austin Seven brakes.!! Even though I have renewed all of the braking system (including expensive cast iron drums in place of the original pressed steel ones) and have the adjustment down to a fine art, I am still at the mercy of skinny cross ply tyres.
I tend to drive on the slow/defensive side and will happily pull over if there are cars waiting to pass; anything for a quiet life! The Swallow can bowl along quite quickly on the flat but the problem of not going fast enough can often occur on hills. I fully appreciate this and will allow easy overtaking hopefully without having to come completely to a stop myself.
The Swallow is hopeless on hills because I still have the original 19" rims combined with a standard low compression head, 3 speed box and 4.9:1 back axle. If I wanted to rattle up the hills I would need to make significant changes to the car. It could be done but I choose to keep the car as original as possible. |
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Clactonguy
Joined: 20 Mar 2018
Posts: 104
Location: clacton on sea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:50 pm Post subject: holding up traffic? |
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as. an owner of a p6 . I am aware these cars. were designed to do national speed limits all day . so it may be he had. an engine issue ( famous for bubbles in fuel now ethanol at 5% is added) if there was no passing point or. area he could safely have pulled aside to let vehicles pass..? then rather than stop and create an impasse? he kept going?
frustrating it can be as aware many elderly drivers where I live whom frequently drive well below posted limits ( no chance of passing) and take. long time to move off at junctions.
so can see that side of things. on other hand we have numerous young drivers hurtling around at well over posted speeds and overtaking. often dangerously!
whom should be rather have around us on road.
as to no minimum speed limit. in usa on a bridge there. exists a minimum limit plus no stopping. idea to prevent build up off traffic on bridge and create. issues.
I always give learner drivers extra room. allow as much time a they. need to pull away. complete a manoeuvre etc . I also add extra. time for any classic cars. though some more 'modern' ones are capable of very fast road. coverage. as a member of a car club we frequently go to events for charity on weekends and. average 55 mph . though this can be lower than national speed limit on some sections of route. we. aware this is for some cars teh maximum they can handle on a run. ( uphill they go slower)
luckily vast majority of drivers seem to adopt a nice relaxed attitude and. do not try and cut us up etc.
one persons attitude to what is a hold up or obstruction can be another having different views.
a balanced view is best .after all is there a set time to be at a place? if we have not allowed for delays ..then. we will be fairly stressed and not relaxed. not a good way to be in control of any vehicle. |
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Paul fairall
Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 429
Location: North west Kent
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I am happy driving my popular at 50mph and do drive at 60mph on occasion and I haven't had any grief from other road users who cannot get by due to road conditions. But on hills I do feel bad when the popular is struggling at 20mph and the reason I am fitting a supercharger this winter. To be able to get up hills at a sensible speed is all I'm asking.
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1957 ford popular |
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