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Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre rerestoration
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Ellis



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1382
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I called the owners of the Bodyworks within minutes of putting it back in the garage and both partners turned up the following day to inspect the car.

I was aware that their warranty on paintwork was 12 months but the looks on their faces as they inspected the car was that of concern. To be fair they accepted responsibility there and then and offered to respray the whole car at no cost.
When i asked why it had happened they both gave the same answer that moisture, somehow, had affected the bare metal. Because they had accepted responsibility without hesitation I saw no purpose of making an issue.

We departed on good terms because I asked for how long their promise would be valid. The reply was that their offer was unconditional and open ended.
Seeing as it all had to be redone I decided to have the Mark 2 converted to Series 3 XJ6 power assisted rack and pinion steering and to change the gearbox to an all synchromesh gearbox from a late Jaguar 340. Major jobs which could have damaged paintwork as the engine would have to be removed.
My friend Roy McBurnie attended to both tasks with my assistance. I bought a basic rack and pinion bracket kit from M & C Wilkinson and was given a S3 rack by the Bodywork proprietors. I failed to find a tandem Ford Transit alternator/power steering pump but managed to find a dynamo/power steering unit from a Jaguar breaker here in North Wales.

The modifications were complete by September 2002 and I started dismantling the car. However shortly after my mother fell ill and underwent several major operations and her convalescence was lengthy so my work was postponed for a long time.

This now brings us up to date so I have just bought a new SD card which will be used only for the car photographs and by next week you will see pics of what happened to the paintwork and the general condition of the car.

I also found out what had really gone wrong with the paintwork by a bespoke paint sprayer with whom I became very friendly with.

Please bear with me.
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1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet
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ukdave2002



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 4100
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Micro blistering is normally the result of leaving a vehicle in primer or filler, even for just a few days, moisture in the air gets absorbed. Its normally the scourge of the home restorer, it shouldn't happen in a professional shop.

The worst case I ever saw was a vehicle that had been primed with a sprayable filler, it just must have sucked up the moisture, a few days after the respray the whole car looked as if it had measles!

Dave
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6283
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something which can sometimes be overlooked by the DIY painter is the compressor. The compressed air which feeds the spray gun leaves the compressor in a damp, oily condition so a filter is essential. Ideally, a dryer is also employed but this is not often found in the average DIY garage.
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Ellis



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1382
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ladies and gentlemen, time to resume and this time with photographs.
I have told you that I started dismantling the car in 2002 before my mother's illness interrupted proceedings.

The following will give you an idea of the general condition of the body. The location is not photogenic and I had to drag the Mark 2 out from the car port with my Defender with all four wheels locked in August this year.



n/s sill and wing :





What's happened here?



The microblistering :













The basic structure is rust free - rear spring hanger :



inner wing closing panel :



As you can see it was a superb example ruined by faulty paintwork. even on the roof :



I'm not going to over dramatise my anger but the examples you have seen are only a fraction of the defects and microblistering which occurred.

The car was painted in June 1996 - a hot month and I had the car brought home for two days to thoroughly sand the surface myself and it left here shining like a new pin bar for the doors and wings which I had sprayed a coat of phosphate.

I learned later that the car was covered in a plastic sheet and remained outdoors for two days before being painted. A few years ago I asked for the opinion of a bespoke paint sprayer what he thought had happened.

The two redundant days were critical, moisture settled under the cover and even the heat of a spray booth was not enough to evaporate the moisture. It was trapped by the primers and would eventually break out.

That's enough for today but your comments will be interesting to read.
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1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet


Last edited by Ellis on Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Ellis



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1382
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than continue with a tale of woe,the standard seats of a Jaguar Mark 2 are hardly the epitome of comfort and I thought I would show you how I trial fitted a set of XJ40 sets in the car :



I had a spare old "S" type seat and an upholsterer friend was able to fit the XJ40 leather cover over it. He did a good job as you can see and does not look out of place.



The front seats fitted well.

This is what mice can do to your headlining:



These photos are for Ray White as to how to louvres should be done and done properly :




Now then good people, advice please. My intentions are to get the car mechanically resorted before I attack the paintwork. It hasn't run for years but was given a major service before laying up and all coolant drained.

There is to be a conversion for the front brakes using Volvo 240 non vented brake callipers and these I have "in stock" but I am at a loss as what to do with the rear and notoriously weak rear brakes. The current Dunlop front callipers have stainless steel inserts and I am tempted to use these on the rear with pressure reducing valves to act as a basic anti brake lock device.
Your advice would be appreciated.

For those who are interested the final colour will be Jaguar "Tungsten" grey with the XJ40 seats and contrasting blue carpeting and furflex.

All your ideas will be gratefully received - do please express your opinions and suggestions.

Incidentally every square inch of the ruined paintwork will have to removed.

I have stock of a deadly paint stripper or would you have the body soda blasted or use orbital sanders to remove the old paint.

I will not use heat guns for fear of distortion.

What are your opinions on solid state rather than points activated fuel pumps?
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1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6283
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking about bonnet louvres; I am sure you will have considered this...but it occurred to me that there will need some form of drainage system?
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Ellis



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1382
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never used the car in the rain bar for the one journey home.

You have a valid point though and one to which I am open to suggestions please.
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1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet
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kevin2306



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1359
Location: nr Llangollen, north wales

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ellis

What about this company?
http://www.fossewayperformance.co.uk/jaguar-mk2-brake-upgrades/

Kev
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badhuis



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1390
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What disheartening pictures of the paint. I can understand your feelings.

Below my remarks and opinions to your car. Please do not be offended, it is not meant to be offended but as you ask for opinions...

Seats: sorry I find this a disgrace, what a pity. The seats, and the rear bench forms a big part of the classic experience of the car.
I was lucky a few years ago to find someone with a (420 style) Daimler Sovereign who, as you, had replaced his very good original interior for XJ40 seats. I bought the original from him to replace the bad seats in my Jaguar 420. These had been recovered in vinyl more than 20 years ago when the car was still in the USA, surely because the original leather had been dry-rotted.
Everyone who has been a passenger in my car compliments on how comfortable the car and seats are. In your case, if the original Mk2 seats were beyond recovering or if you feel they are not good enough, I would have searched for 420 / Sovereign / S-type seats. They do appear on Ebay and there are many Jaguar breakers which sometimes have a good set. They have a unique style, can be used as a three persons bench (not that anyone who do so) and each front seat has its own retractable arm rest. Would be more period than the too modern looking XJ40 set.
Again, my opinion only. Your car is your car and please do what you like.

Louvres. Again, I am not a fan of these. If not fitted originally they always look a bit boy-racer to me. Their cooling function is doubtful (there was a lot of discussion on the Jensen forum about this, some cars had bonnets with factory fitted louvres). The PO of my Jensen bought such a new louvred bonnet when he restored the car 20 years ago. If I can exchange this to a non louvred bonnet I will but it is not as simple as that. The bonnet will need to be made fit to the car which with luck will be simple but may as well take many man-hours. So I will have to live with it.

Brakes. The brakes of the various Mk2 cars I have driven / tested in the last 10 years (after installing electric power steering or air conditioning) never made a good impression on me so an upgrade can be worthwhile. For opinions and/or suggestions I think you are better off firing this question on Jaguar forums?

Good luck with your car, thank you for letting us know your experiences!
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Ellis



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1382
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Kevin - yes I had heard of Fosseway Performance before.
SNG Barratt market a similar system and I am looking at both.

The Volvo 240 non vented brake calliper alternative to an E Type or Mark 2 was discovered by somebody in the early 1990s. I bought a pair of these callipers from the Jaguar Dismantler David Kelly in Legacy near Wrexham in the late 1990s when Volvo 240s were abundant in breakers yards and when his stocks comprised all cars.

The main advantage of the Volvo system is that it works well with the original Mark 2 brake servo to the extent that you can dispense with the troublesome reserve vacuum tank.
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1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6283
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is only a potential problem with bonnet vents if the car is parked up in rain (or when it is washed) because with the engine running any water getting in will quickly evaporate. It is probably more a case of rust stains in the engine bay than anything else. I suggest keeping a roll of masking tape in the car.

I believe there is a technical reason for the bonnet vents and it is to do with improving the efficiency of the radiator.

Cold air picks up heat from the radiator. Normally it will exit by taking the route of least resistance under the car. If you vent the bonnet the hot air will naturally rise and exit through the vents - and air passing over the bonnet will also drag the hot air out of the engine compartment. This will assist with radiator efficiency. To make the most of this, however, you would need to duct the air from the radiator to the vents. This would also eliminate any problem with water ingress as it could be channelled away.
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Ellis



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1382
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

badhuis wrote:
What disheartening pictures of the paint. I can understand your feelings.

Below my remarks and opinions to your car. Please do not be offended, it is not meant to be offended but as you ask for opinions...

Seats: sorry I find this a disgrace, what a pity. The seats, and the rear bench forms a big part of the classic experience of the car.


Good luck with your car, thank you for letting us know your experiences!


badhuis.

I am not in the least offended by any of your comments. I asked for suggestions from fellow forum members and was well prepared to receive some comments which would would be at variance to my own opinions or ideas.

The original, well, they're not the original dark blue seats, door cards and so are carefully preserved in my dry warm cellar. Those came from the 1965 3.8 Mark 2 I strripped for spares as I described earlier. The XJ40 seats are more comfortable but the change is not irreversible.

I still own the original bonnet from the car - without louvres - in good condition.

The braking performance is where we do agree. The original Dunlop callipers were never really up to the job so the Volvo upgrade is "on" but improved rear braking will be required or I will end up with a Jaguar Mark 2 with an unbalanced braking or incorrect brake bias.
Have you any suggestions apart from a pressure reducing valves for the rear while using the the larger front callipers.
Careful research will be needed here.

Thank you for your input, please continue.
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1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet
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Ellis



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1382
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
I think there is only a potential problem with bonnet vents if the car is parked up in rain (or when it is washed) because with the engine running any water getting in will quickly evaporate. It is probably more a case of rust stains in the engine bay than anything else. I suggest keeping a roll of masking tape in the car.

I believe there is a technical reason for the bonnet vents and it is to do with improving the efficiency of the radiator.

Cold air picks up heat from the radiator. Normally it will exit by taking the route of least resistance under the car. If you vent the bonnet the hot air will naturally rise and exit through the vents - and air passing over the bonnet will also drag the hot air out of the engine compartment. This will assist with radiator efficiency. To make the most of this, however, you would need to duct the air from the radiator to the vents. This would also eliminate any problem with water ingress as it could be channelled away.


Thank you for your answer Ray.
Can I ask you to give some thought about ducting please?
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1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 6283
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My pleasure, Ellis. The ducting need not be too intrusive if it is attached to the underside of the bonnet; it could even be mostly hidden behind the sound deadening.

Quite what would be the most suitable material and how one attaches the ducting is a matter of choice but I wouldn't have thought it need be over elaborate.

Of course, for the system to work most efficiently, you would need a suitable under tray. That would eliminate down drag and also keep the engine compartment clean but it is probably more work than you would want.

(many cars of the 20s and 30s - especially Americans like my Dodge Brothers - had splash guards, but few still have them as they can be a nuisance during maintenance and have long since been discarded.)
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Ellis



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1382
Location: Betws y Coed, North Wales

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although my first priorities are to get the car running again and to return it to my mechanical satisfaction, I have over the past few days contacted several of the better body and spray workshops locally.

The best around here which I will not name for the moment has expressed an interest in repainting the car and attending to the correct positioning of the nearside sill (which I have never been happy with) provided I remove all the paint and apply a quality phosphate primer that will isolate the body from moisture . The proprietor has told me not to worry about the microblistering or try and remove it myself.

I have been given an indication of the cost even though I have the 2k paint already bought.
Shocked

No holiday for me next year .
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1964 Jaguar Mark 2 3.4 litre
1962 Land Rover Series 2a 88"
2002 BMW M3 E46 Cabriolet
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