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Cheapo 20/50 - still ok or a false economy?
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 22429
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject: Cheapo 20/50 - still ok or a false economy? Reply with quote

Perusing the shelves at a local motor factor recently, I saw a range of el-cheapo 20/50 oils. I've seen them before, a few years back, but assumed that they were no longer in production having not seen them for quite a while, yet they've now made a re-appearance locally.

Is using a cheapo 20/50 a false economy? No great claims are made on the packaging, nor are there any API ratings either.

Is this stuff best left to old lawnmowers and the like, or is it ok to use in an older car?

RJ
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kevin2306



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
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Location: nr Llangollen, north wales

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve always bought good quality oil from known brands, cheaper than an engine rebuild I’d say.

Kev
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synthetic oils have very much better properties than mineral oils. I would only go for mineral in low stress applications.

Peter
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BigJohn



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Location: Wem, Shropshire

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use cheap 20/50 on my Escort's Kent engine, but I change my oil and filter at every 1500 miles.
My Golf gets the good stuff, but I still change the oil/filter at about 1500 miles.
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emmerson



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1268
Location: South East Wales

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On ,my rebuilt 4.2 Range Rover, after the rebuild the man put it on Synthetic oil. After a few miles the oil flickered on low tick-over. Switching to 15/50 mineral fixed it.
But the V8 was designed 50 years ago, so maybe it shouldn't have had synthetic anyway.
My old Talbot is on mineral too, but the modern Kangoo is synthetic.
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PAUL BEAUMONT



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 1281
Location: Barnsley S. Yorks

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lack of API ratings concerns me. Cheap oils are generally ok for use when it is changed regularly, but with no API rating you have no idea what you are buying
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Phil - Nottingham



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not use non API rated oils - I used to use Comma 20/50 since the 1980's but now use Smith & Alan 20/50 which buy in 20-litre drums and change it between 3000 and 6000 miles or 2 years depending on the car and use
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Bitumen Boy



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
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Location: Above the snow line in old Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say the cheapo 20/50 might be all right for rust proofing and the garage door hinges/mechanism, but I wouldn't want to put it in an engine tbh. As others have said, you just don't know what it is.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1950
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The basic oil is simply...oil.

All oils have the same base, if mineral-based.

What differentiates them is what is added to that base oil.
Currently I've lost the link, to a US petro-chemist who conducted his own tests & experiments, with all sorts of oils, to determine which oils/brands showed however much wear.
Generally speaking [as I recall] he found that, even with engines that had old-fashioned tolerances, a good synthetic like Mobil 1, gave the best protection against wear...due in no small part to it's up-to-date additives.
Yet sage opinion says that stuff is far from suitable in old-style engines.
To me, any oil is better than no oil.
If it's sold in the shops it must meet certain standards.....
[I found Lidl's oil. when one could get it, to be great in my old Daihatsu...10W40]....Wilko sell a basic 20/50 that used to be 12 quid for 5 litres. OK if one's motor tends to burn/lose a bit of oil.
Today's oils have to contend with high mileages between oil changes..... if we buy a cheap oil, and change it frequently, then who is to say it is causing less, the same, or more bearing wear to occur?

There is also a great play currently with zinc content [which was removed surreptitiously decades ago] in preventing hammer wear, on camshafts etc.

Yet, too much zinc is counter-productive in this respect.
Personally I use oils from Classic oils...also Opie, [for Millers] Silkolene is good in certain applications...then there's Morris's? [which I find a bit expensive]
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Ashley



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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Location: Near Stroud, Glos

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First thing to understand is that all old engines are highly stressed. They have long strokes, high piston speeds, cars tend to be undergeared and have old fashioned camshaft designs that are more wear prone. Not to mention carburettors than don’t control fuel properly so that it tends to dissolve the oil protecting the top ring.

For all these reasons the same Mobil 1 10W60 is recommended for old engines as is recommended for Racing engines.

Synthetic oils are much better than old oils and they virtually eliminate wear.
Also they don’t dissolve with petrol, so protect against bore wear and top ring failure.

Old cars need the protection of fully synthetic oil.
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47Jag



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 1480
Location: Bothwell, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was an episode of Fast & Loud on recently and they put in a ‘basic’ oil and added zinc to a brand new engine. Their theory was that the cheaper oil would be OK for the initial break-in and at the time the expressed how important it was to do a break-in procedure. Anyhoooo, it didn’t go well and one of the valve lifters failed screwing up the camshaft in the process. The engine builder put the failure down to them using the cheap oil and they had to swallow the cost of the repair. This then led to a ‘piece to camera’ about the merits of using good quality oil even a first start break-in time. Contrived?? Perhaps.

Art
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashley wrote:

Old cars need the protection of fully synthetic oil.


Here, here!

Peter.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't there a risk that if you change your oil from straight mineral to modern synthetic that the detergents in it will lift silt and other debris?
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peter scott



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think most oils regardless whether synth or mineral have detergent properties but if your engine has no oil filter you really need frequent oil changes.

Peter
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Ray White



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Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter scott wrote:
I think most oils regardless whether synth or mineral have detergent properties but if your engine has no oil filter you really need frequent oil changes.

Peter


I am pretty sure you can buy "non detergent" straight 30 mineral oil. I would opt for an engine rebuild and go with fully synthetic to be sure. I have done this with my Austin Seven engine and had no problems. In fact it now uses so little oil the risk is I forget about it!
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