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DVLA on the prowl
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lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1144
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:29 am    Post subject: DVLA on the prowl Reply with quote

Last weekend was the Stoneleigh show, and it seems that the DVLA were there checking cars against computer records. They withdrew, I am told, a number of V5s for replicas. Now no matter what make we have been changing bodies on chassis since time immemorial - the Austin 7 hill climb cars come to mind as an example - but now retrospectively they are baldly saying that the car isn't what it says on the tin and will have to be reregistered under the IVA rules. A Bentley Le Mans replica? A DB5 with the chassis shortened by 5" to turn it into a Zagato? If the DVLA find out we are all for the high jump it seems.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1054
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would have been useful to know exactly what 'replicas' had their V5s withdrawn?
Otherwise we fall into the trap of urban myth once more.
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Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
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Location: Somerset

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a good sign of the coming times I would say.
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1946 ERF C.I.5
1947 Hillman Minx
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1054
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Won't affect the vast majority I think? Will affect those brand new vehicles built as 'replicas' of ancient stuff.....and pinching an equally ancient ID?
Since they are well out of my price range [or desires] I don't have issues.....

But it is good to see the DVLA are being proactive in enforcement? Like checking those who drive in, on SORN?

I also welcome DVSA's roadside checks as well......just wish there were more of them....then maybe those new car drivers will fix their brake lights properly? Or check their load security?

Regarding changes t spec? Best to read the comprehensive rules published by DVSA and DVLA? It is surprising what alterations can be made without affecting the Historic Vehicle status...or the exemption from MoT [which isn't linked....one can lose MoT exemption, yet retain Historic vehcie status]...
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2748
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to see a test case in the Courts. I suggest that the DVLA officials would have egg on their face if it could be shown how, before WW2, many manufacturers offered just the rolling chassis that could be bodied by one of the numerous coach building establishments. I wonder if the DVLA jobsworths even realise that Rolls Royce ONLY offered their cars in rolling chassis form.

I am as keen as anyone to see fraudsters exposed and prosecuted but it requires a modicum of understanding of the subject.
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alastairq



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1054
Location: East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray White wrote:
I would like to see a test case in the Courts. I suggest that the DVLA officials would have egg on their face if it could be shown how, before WW2, many manufacturers offered just the rolling chassis that could be bodied by one of the numerous coach building establishments. I wonder if the DVLA jobsworths even realise that Rolls Royce ONLY offered their cars in rolling chassis form.

I am as keen as anyone to see fraudsters exposed and prosecuted but it requires a modicum of understanding of the subject.


I suspect the examples you have quoted are not in the frame.

More likely to be, the tubular chassied, plastic bodied, hot-rod type that [according to the V5] is a Model A Ford? Of 1930's vintage?
_________________
Dellow Mk2, 1951 built, reg 1952.
Ford Mustang coupe, 1967, 6 cylinder auto.
Fiat 126 BIS
Cannon special [1996 registered. Built in 1950's]
----------------------------------------------
Ford Pop chassis, Ashley 1172 bodyshell, in pieces.
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2748
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If 'specials' are to be targeted then there are historic versions of those cars which raises lots of other questions. Ashley may be able to confirm that there are historic hot rods which could well be tarred with the same brush.
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Rootes75



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 2362
Location: Somerset

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 1937 Ford 7W spent a good 60 years being 'modified' with a Prefect front end. I wonder what that sort of modification would be classed as?
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1946 ERF C.I.5
1947 Hillman Minx
1955 Hillman Minx Mk8
1950 Commer R541
1978 Karrier Bantam
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Penman



Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3917
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I wonder if they are going to remove MoT exemption from the older examples of Electric Classic Car products?

Incidently the black Morris Minor series II featured on BBCs Click programme this morning.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0003xz8/click-preventing-pollution
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2748
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rootes75 wrote:
My 1937 Ford 7W spent a good 60 years being 'modified' with a Prefect front end. I wonder what that sort of modification would be classed as?


That would come under the "sacrilegious" category. Laughing

You will probably be facing the firing squad.

If a car has been modified by a previous owner then it's all a bit irrelevant surely?
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lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1144
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I deliberately left out some information in my original post. They were targetting GT40 replicas amongst others, and withdrawing the V5 on the spot. Those cars had to go home on trailers. But you didn't know that my Lynx XKSS has been targeted by the DVLA as well. As a specialist in these cars I argued that according to the declaration for MOT exemption my car qualified, having been built over 30 years ago based on a chassis that was over 40 years ago. I sent them copies of every Lynx brochure; C-type, D-type, lightweight E-type, Eventer, and so on. They refused to accept that these cars existed, and since, like so many V5s, the car was an E-type 2+2 they withdrew my V5 and my private plate with it. If the car was to be reregistered in the UK, despite having been registered and existed for the last 31 years, it now needed to be registered as a 2019 car under IVA rules. Catalyst, incidence of lighting and so on all come into play, so sit yourselves down and read the 200+ pages of the IVA rules. You might be surprised as to whether your own cars might be affected. And believe me, I am hearing that some ex-mod people are now poachers turned gamekeepers, working for the DVLA. And that came from inside the DVLA. I have taken up the situation with the FHBVC and will see what they say and report back. In the mean time, my car is back on the road, but that is another matter.
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Rick
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Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 20076
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting to read about this lowdrag, was the Stoneleigh event specifically a kit car/replica do?

RJ
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Various 1920s-1960s - Austin, Morris, Commer, Dodge etc.
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BigJohn



Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 863
Location: Nr. Lancaster

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always find pre 1970 Mini's without exterior door hinges raise an eyebrow. Are they more modern ringers on a pre70 V5?
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lowdrag



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 1144
Location: Le Mans

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick wrote:
Interesting to read about this lowdrag, was the Stoneleigh event specifically a kit car/replica do?

RJ


Not at all Rick. It is a spares day, cars on sale as well, and a gathering where people have met for years. But specifically a Jaguar event. Now Jaguar replicas are legion, as we all know. People ask me if my XKSS is real, and my standard reply is "no, because sadly I didn't have a spare 15 million in my pocket". I wrote articles on replicas for years, and I always finished with the words "live the dream". There are so many Jaguar replica makers, some gone, some existing, and we all have believed that what we were doing was OK. As I said at the beginning - take an Austin Ruby, throw the body away, and create an alloy two-seater. Nothing has changed since 1930 except the DVLA who have recently decided to wage war on modified cars. I would ask you to look at form V112 of the DVLA and specifically section "r". You will find that my car qualifies, yet they wouldn't listen. All modified cars are now under attack it seems
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Ray White



Joined: 02 Dec 2014
Posts: 2748
Location: Derby

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are they doing this? and what about the likes of Suffolk?
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